Ontario Line Extension West of Ontario Place (Speculation)

[gweed123]

Here's what I envision for the western end of the OL:

Exhibition to Humber Bay Loop: Within LSW ROW

Humber Bay Loop to Canpa Sub: Elevated within median of the Gardiner. This would provide connectivity to the densifying (and could densify even further) lands on either side of the Gardiner.

Gardiner to Kipling Stn: Via Canpa Sub. Kipling Stn becomes a major interchange station between the OL, Line 2, and a plethora of bus routes.

Kipling Stn to Cooksville GO: Replace Milton Line GO service with the Ontario Line. OL technology will be far more versatile in terms of ducking and dodging around the freight tracks than even GO RER will be.

Cooksville GO to CP bridge over 403: Dive into a tunnel immediately west of Cooksville GO, and veer north towards Square One. New interchange station with Mississauga Transitway and Hurontario LRT on the north side of Square One shopping centre. Tunnel then continues under Hwy 403, veers westward, and emerges in the hydro corridor. Continues in hydro corridor until CP bridge.

At CP bridge: OL branches into two lines. One continues west, replacing the Mississauga Transitway. The other veers north, running parallel to the CP tracks and uses most of the existing Milton GO Line station infrastructure. A spur line would run south across the CP bridge from this junction and service Erindale GO, with a shuttle service that would run between Erindale GO and Square One (with a potential future extension west to UTM, though that would be challenging due to the geography).


This option would provide far greater frequency on the Milton Line corridor than what GO currently offers, and arguably could offer even with RER. It also has the advantage of diverting through Square One, putting Mississauga's main transit transfer point at a major destination.

Further to this, I envision the OL Line northwestern branch ending at Lisgar, not Milton. Milton would be serviced by a new GO line (could also be called the Milton Line) that would run along the current alignment from Milton to Lisgar GO, then would hop into the 407 corridor and connect to the Kitchener Line just southeast of Bramalea. This would provide a far more direct travel option between Milton and Downtown Toronto, and it would be mostly on GO-exclusive tracks. It would also provide a rail connection between Milton and Pearson.

 

[innsertnamehere]

My idea for an entirely elevated / at grade OL extension all the way to Bramalea City Centre in Brampton.

Basic idea would be that it runs along the LSW corridor to Humber Bay, along the Gardiner to Canpa, up Canpa to Kipling, up the Etobicoke Hydro Corridor to Dixon, across Airport Rd / Dixon by the airport, up the Kitchener corridor to Bramalea, then circle through existing natural connections to Bramalea CC (that last part may be politically challenging).

Yellow = Elevated
Orange = at-grade

This could be built in 3 phases, Exhibition - Kipling, Kipling - Airport, and Airport - Bramalea.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

Extending west along the gardiner but not to Sherway is a miss. Sherway is slated to receive massive development in the coming years.

 

[gweed123]

My idea for an entirely elevated / at grade OL extension all the way to Bramalea City Centre in Brampton.

Interesting idea, though I'd be tempted to use the 427 instead of the Kipling Hydro corridor. The constructability challenges would be similar, but there's a lot more ridership potential along the 427 corridor. Going to Bramalea City Centre is an interesting idea though.

 

[drum118]

My idea for an entirely elevated / at grade OL extension all the way to Bramalea City Centre in Brampton.

Basic idea would be that it runs along the LSW corridor to Humber Bay, along the Gardiner to Canpa, up Canpa to Kipling, up the Etobicoke Hydro Corridor to Dixon, across Airport Rd / Dixon by the airport, up the Kitchener corridor to Bramalea, then circle through existing natural connections to Bramalea CC (that last part may be politically challenging).

Yellow = Elevated
Orange = at-grade

View attachment 448467

This could be built in 3 phases, Exhibition - Kipling, Kipling - Airport, and Airport - Bramalea.

Any thoughts these days of using the Hydro Corridors for Transit is DOA As Hydro One is Protecting them for future needs

There is no room in the Lakeshore Corridor for the OL extension as Metrolinx has protect it for a 5/6 track west of Dufferin St as far as I know.

The thoughts of using an elevated line on the Gardiner must take into consideration of heights to get over ramps, overpass and other issues. Far off using the Queensway west of the Humber to Sherway as it will service the area better than the LSW or the Gardiner.

Again, any thoughts of using an elevated line on the 427 must take into consideration of heights to get over ramps, overpass as well flight paths for the airport. How does 427 service the areas along it??

Any roads where the elevated line is to go in will require one lane in each direction to be out of service to build the support columns and the guideway from 10-18 months that will go over like a lead balloon with the car community and MTO.

Why stopping at Brampton when you could take it up to Orangeville??

 

[Jaye101]

I have to admit, on a forum called URBAN Toronto, I would have expected more suggestions of lines that would serve... Urban Toronto. It just seems so unexpected to see so many suggestions including places like Sherway, Queensway, 427... And transit lines along highways, through industrial areas with low density, and low existing ridership.

The Dufferin, Keele, Lansdowne, and Jane buses combined would probably carry more people everyday than ANY suggested route that follows LW into Etobicoke.

Exhibition (LW)
Jameson-Queen
Dundas-Brock
College-Dufferin
Bloor-Dufferin (Line 2)
Dupont-Dufferin
St. Clair-Dufferin
Caledonia-Eglinton (Line 5, B)
Keele-Lawrence
Jane-Wilson
Jane-Sheppard

 

[gweed123]

Extending west along the gardiner but not to Sherway is a miss. Sherway is slated to receive massive development in the coming years.

Sherway is tough to serve with a through line though, because it would be an awkward curve in and out. Personally, I think it would be better served with an extension of Line 2.

The thoughts of using an elevated line on the Gardiner must take into consideration of heights to get over ramps, overpass and other issues. Far off using the Queensway west of the Humber to Sherway as it will service the area better than the LSW or the Gardiner.

Again, any thoughts of using an elevated line on the 427 must take into consideration of heights to get over ramps, overpass as well flight paths for the airport. How does 427 service the areas along it??

There are some examples of elevated median infrastructure going over top of overpasses. Here's an example from the Katy Freeway in Houston (granted it's carrying vehicular lanes and not transit, but the structure would be quite similar). I don't think the flight path to Pearson would be an issue, given that the high-mast lighting on the 427 is already taller than what any guideway would be.

 

[drum118]

Sherway is tough to serve with a through line though, because it would be an awkward curve in and out. Personally, I think it would be better served with an extension of Line 2.


There are some examples of elevated median infrastructure going over top of overpasses. Here's an example from the Katy Freeway in Houston (granted it's carrying vehicular lanes and not transit, but the structure would be quite similar). I don't think the flight path to Pearson would be an issue, given that the high-mast lighting on the 427 is already taller than what any guideway would be.

When I met with MTO staff almost 20 years ago about an RT on the 401, I said it was easy to have an elevated line over all the overpasses as well maintaining a level guideway where dips and valleys are. Also to have stations at various overpasses. As for the flight path, its something to keep in mind as it will only take one low flying plane to have a major impact on everything.

As for the curb at Sherway, it can be done fair easy by doing an 90 degreed turn at the West Mall and then angle it north to the centre of the 427. Nothing wrong in having both lines going to Sherway when they server 2 different markets in the first place. Not an support of line 2 to to Sherway.

 

[Rainforest]

There is no room in the Lakeshore Corridor for the OL extension as Metrolinx has protect it for a 5/6 track west of Dufferin St as far as I know.

However, is there enough room for those 5 or 6 GO tracks to run between the Exhibition and Strachan, together with the already planned pair of OL tracks?

Or, does Metrolinx believe that having 5+ tracks west of the Exhibition GO is beneficial even if no more than 4 tracks can exist between the Exhibition GO and Union Stn?

 

[Rainforest]

I have to admit, on a forum called URBAN Toronto, I would have expected more suggestions of lines that would serve... Urban Toronto. It just seems so unexpected to see so many suggestions including places like Sherway, Queensway, 427... And transit lines along highways, through industrial areas with low density, and low existing ridership.

The Dufferin, Keele, Lansdowne, and Jane buses combined would probably carry more people everyday than ANY suggested route that follows LW into Etobicoke.

Exhibition (LW)
Jameson-Queen
Dundas-Brock
College-Dufferin
Bloor-Dufferin (Line 2)
Dupont-Dufferin
St. Clair-Dufferin
Caledonia-Eglinton (Line 5, B)
Keele-Lawrence
Jane-Wilson
Jane-Sheppard

Fair points. However, let's traverse that route from the north towards downtown:

Jane-Sheppard
Jane-Wilson
Keele-Lawrence
Caledonia-Eglinton
St. Clair-Dufferin
Dupont-Dufferin
Bloor-Dufferin
College-Dufferin

At that point, do you really want to turn away from downtown and divert west as far as Jameson, in order to link with OL at the Exhibition? That's about 1.7 km in a tunnel, plus 1 km at the surface in the LSW corridor.

Wouldn't it be better to turn towards downtown and run under Dundas?

Ossington-Dundas
Bathurst
Spadina
University-Dundas (Line 1)

That's a 3.5 km tunnel, and we get straight into downtown. Not too much extra cost compared to the whole line; Jane-Sheppard to College would be 12 km, totally or mostly tunneled. And the benefits are:
- A much more straight route to downtown, no diversion to Jameson and the Exhibition.
- Total new capacity into downtown (that always needs more transit capacity), rather than sharing the platforms with the flow from OL East.

 

[drum118]

However, is there enough room for those 5 or 6 GO tracks to run between the Exhibition and Strachan, together with the already planned pair of OL tracks?

Or, does Metrolinx believe that having 5+ tracks west of the Exhibition GO is beneficial even if no more than 4 tracks can exist between the Exhibition GO and Union Stn?

They were putting in the 5th track between Dufferin and Bathurst years ago, but has sat undone like the Exhibition Station expansion.

The 5th track was to get to/from Willowbrook yard easier. Is that still in the cards with the plan Park Lawn Station?

The 6th track west of Dufferin only would be for VIA Rail yard.

 

[Jaye101]

Fair points. However, let's traverse that route from the north towards downtown:

Jane-Sheppard
Jane-Wilson
Keele-Lawrence
Caledonia-Eglinton
St. Clair-Dufferin
Dupont-Dufferin
Bloor-Dufferin
College-Dufferin

At that point, do you really want to turn away from downtown and divert west as far as Jameson, in order to link with OL at the Exhibition? That's about 1.7 km in a tunnel, plus 1 km at the surface in the LSW corridor.

Wouldn't it be better to turn towards downtown and run under Dundas?

Ossington-Dundas
Bathurst
Spadina
University-Dundas (Line 1)

That's a 3.5 km tunnel, and we get straight into downtown. Not too much extra cost compared to the whole line; Jane-Sheppard to College would be 12 km, totally or mostly tunneled. And the benefits are:
- A much more straight route to downtown, no diversion to Jameson and the Exhibition.
- Total new capacity into downtown (that always needs more transit capacity), rather than sharing the platforms with the flow from OL East.

This is great insight. And I do feel the same to a certain extent.

Tbh, when I think of the Ontario line I actually think of 2 separate lines south of Bloor.

A Dundas-College (OL 2) line, that veers south towards Roncessvalles and Park Lawn in the west, and east along Gerrard towards Little Indian and then South towards Woodbine Beach. With an interchange station at Gerrard Sq in the east with OL1, and College-Dufferin in the west. 2 useful lines that will act synergistically and not cannibalize one another. Bringing service directly to existing high ridership areas with a built form conducive to transit use.

 

[Snoopy]

I would extend the line North up Dufferin, ( it would need to be underground). I would have it connected with Yorkdale Mall and Wilson subway stations, then return to Dufferin to Finch and beyond.
On a side note, I would also create an Ontario Line East, going from the new Cork Town Station up Kingston Road to Yorkmills.

 

[blacksquirrels]

Option 1: north on Dufferin to Eglinton (Fairbank)
Option 2: north on Roncesvalles to Dundas West; + north via rail corridor to Jane
Option 3A: north on Parkside to Keele; + north on Keele to Keelesdale
Option 3B: north on Parkside to Keele; + north on Keele via rail corridor to Jane
Option 4: north on South Kingsway/Windermere to Jane then north on Jane
Option 5A: west via the rail corridor to Humber Bay; + west via Queensway/Gardiner to Sherway
Option 5B: west via the rail corridor to Humber Bay; + west via Queensway/Gardiner then north to YYZ
Option 6: west via the rail corridor to Humber Bay; + west to Long Branch and beyond

they all seem relatively viable, but north on Jane makes the most sense to me. whether it uses Roncesvalles, Parkside, Keele, South Kingsway or whatever route to get there probably isn't that important.

and like others have said I agree with the need for a second OL on Dufferin in the future.

 

[Rainforest]

I would extend the line North up Dufferin, ( it would need to be underground). I would have it connected with Yorkdale Mall and Wilson subway stations, then return to Dufferin to Finch and beyond.
On a side note, I would also create an Ontario Line East, going from the new Cork Town Station up Kingston Road to Yorkmills.

Up Dufferin in downtown is one of the options (not my favorite, but one that makes sense if there is room for the curve from west to north).

Up Dufferin near Finch, probably not. That segment would compete for the riders with the western leg of Line 1, that isn't very busy up north. If OL West follows Dufferin and crosses Bloor and Eglinton, then after Eglinton it needs to either swing way west, or just connect to one of Line 1's Allen Road stations and terminate there.

Another subway running east and then up Kingston Road to Yorkmills .. maybe, but there will be competing proposals to turn it north way sooner and go up Victoria Park.