Filip
Senior Member
Where's the WW LRT? Far more useful than a gigantic subway loop.
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OneCity Plan
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
Where's the WW LRT? Far more useful than a gigantic subway loop.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
After riding on Jane today a Jane LRT won't work, unless it's underground all the way up to the 401. South of the 401 there's no where to widen the road on either side, and a ROW south of there would sacrifice the left turn lanes and have no bike lanes.
Except for a couple of blocks along that route to widen it, but what use is that...
Except for a couple of blocks along that route to widen it, but what use is that...
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I wouldn't be surprised if they only had it run to eglinton, tunneling south of the 400. that is about 3km of tunnels, and could fit within the estimated $1.8 billion pricetag. or they could just do it st. clair style, with no roadside parking and unusually thin vehicle lanes. (2.9m instead of 3.3m) I think the WWLRT will be done like that.
also, my favourite part of this project is that the estimated prices on the different lines seems realistic, unlike transit city when it was first proposed.
also, my favourite part of this project is that the estimated prices on the different lines seems realistic, unlike transit city when it was first proposed.
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44 North
Senior Member
Alright, what's bugging me about this whole thing is that if this entire plan went through, Scarborough - the low-density former borough - would have more rapid transit (well, mostly quasi-rapid) coverage than Old Toronto. That doesn't make any sense.
This is backwards planning; the same type of planning that got us into our present mess in the first place. Namely: the 'suburbs'/former boroughs have significantly more sway than they should. That's Toronto's history in a nutshell. The real city - where the money, jobs, and attractions are - takes a backseat to the quiet, low-density suburbs. No other major city suffers from this unfair, backward nonsense!
This is backwards planning; the same type of planning that got us into our present mess in the first place. Namely: the 'suburbs'/former boroughs have significantly more sway than they should. That's Toronto's history in a nutshell. The real city - where the money, jobs, and attractions are - takes a backseat to the quiet, low-density suburbs. No other major city suffers from this unfair, backward nonsense!
innsertnamehere
Superstar
not really. Old Toronto already has streetcar ROWS crisscrossing it. now we are adding some in the suburbs that are better adapted for the needs of the suburbs. (i.e. longer cars, larger stop distances due to the distances between everything out there, stoplight priority as the frequency will be low enough not to seriously affect car traffic)
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
That's sort of my critique of it too. I'm supportive of it, because at this point in Toronto's sad history of keeping up with transit expansion, the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. On the other hand, the plan still is too suburb-centric, and as unpopular as it is to admit, most of this city's population growth and job growth for the forseeable future will take place downtown, no matter how great the transit in the suburbs will be.
The fact that the DRL doesn't extend west of Yonge is a major omission.
doady
Senior Member
The Yonge subway already gets relief from the west thanks to the University-Spadina line. If that DRL is to be extended, it should be extended north of Eglinton, not west of Yonge.
sixrings
Senior Member
I have a hard time imagining you take the university subway line. At the moment I live at eglinton west and its very difficult to get on during rush hour because its already packed. Ill assume with the extension will naturally come more riders which will make a already bad situation worse. On top of that now the university line will eventually see riders transfering from the Eglinton LRT which again I am sure will see an increase in ridership as people will naturally transfer here versus waiting to bloor. Eventually the University line will need relief the same as Yonge does today. As much as Id like to see the DRL go further north (ideally sheppard) and past Eglinton I cant endorse that at the cost of relief on the west hand side.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Old Toronto will still have much better transit coverage:
- Multiple subway lines: YUS loop, Don Mills subway (aka DRL), and Bloor - Danforth
- Airport Rail Link to quickly get to Pearson; better yet if it charges a regular TTC or GO fare rather than a premiun business fare
- Central part of Eglinton LRT
- Frequent streetcar and bus routes serving closely spaced arterials.
Scarborough will have 1 subway, 1 "inrail" line of unknown frequency, 3 Lakeshore East GO stations, and two local-style LRT lines (better than downtown streetcars, but only because the streets are wide and allow dedicated LRT lanes).
RC8
Senior Member
I agree with those who feel the plan is too suburb-centric, but if TTC makes good use of the rail corridors then our downtown will be much better served than it is now. We all need to get behind this, or we'll get nothing once again.
MisterF
Senior Member
The streetcars aren't even remotely close to satisfying the demand for travel downtown. They're hopelessly inadequate for the task. More subway investment downtown is long overdue. The upgraded GO lines will help, but they won't be very useful for east-west travel through the heart of downtown. That's where the DRL comes in.
Looking at the DRL (or Don Mills Express or Downtown Core Line) only as a Yonge reliever is pretty shortsighted. The line going west of downtown could also relieve Union Station depending on how it's designed, and would certainly relieve the overcrowded streetcar lines in the King/Queen West area. That's one of the densest and fastest-growing parts of the GTA and a subway line on Queen or King would serve it perfectly.
Following the trend of suggesting changes, I made a quick map of the changes that I would make. Overall, OneCity forms a pretty good base though.
The changes:
1) SMLRT removed. Pretty self explanatory as to why I think
2) DRL West extended to the Ex and then up Dufferin.
3) WWLRT ends at DRL West, branches to both Lake Shore and the Queensway (to Sherway). Sherway extension added vs downtown stretch deleted is about cost-neutral. Also opens up the possibility for an underground Queen LRT if sufficient demand exists.
4) FWLRT extended down Highway 27 and Dixon to the Airport. However, it does not go further east, as I think an LRT 1 concession north of Sheppard is an unnecessary duplication of service. Instead, a BRT runs from Keele, through the hydro corridor, then down Warden, to become the Ellesmere BRT. Some sections of this can be BRT Light however, to save on cost.
5) Jane and Don Mills LRTs become a single line, interlined with the central stretch of the Eglinton LRT. This saves the Jane LRT going south of Eglinton to Bloor (huge tunnelling expense), while still being useful.
EDIT: I reuploaded the map to make it more viewable at a shrunken scale, but the old one still shows up as being attached. Sorry.
The changes:
1) SMLRT removed. Pretty self explanatory as to why I think
2) DRL West extended to the Ex and then up Dufferin.
3) WWLRT ends at DRL West, branches to both Lake Shore and the Queensway (to Sherway). Sherway extension added vs downtown stretch deleted is about cost-neutral. Also opens up the possibility for an underground Queen LRT if sufficient demand exists.
4) FWLRT extended down Highway 27 and Dixon to the Airport. However, it does not go further east, as I think an LRT 1 concession north of Sheppard is an unnecessary duplication of service. Instead, a BRT runs from Keele, through the hydro corridor, then down Warden, to become the Ellesmere BRT. Some sections of this can be BRT Light however, to save on cost.
5) Jane and Don Mills LRTs become a single line, interlined with the central stretch of the Eglinton LRT. This saves the Jane LRT going south of Eglinton to Bloor (huge tunnelling expense), while still being useful.
EDIT: I reuploaded the map to make it more viewable at a shrunken scale, but the old one still shows up as being attached. Sorry.
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44 North
Senior Member
Scarb will also have two BRTs, supposedly.
And last I checked, the Air Rail Link will be at least $25 per person, per direction. I really, really doubt this can be converted into actual public transit. Contracts have been signed, people have to make an ROI.
Yes, Old Toronto will always have more coverage. But even our ROW streetcars are still very slow and local service. We are an alpha city. But unlike every other alpha city, we have very little rapid transit coverage in our core. The DRL needs to be fast tracked, not Sheppard West. Sheppard West is a $1.5B boondoggle that provides little purpose other than getting deadhead trains to Yonge.
And last I checked, the Air Rail Link will be at least $25 per person, per direction. I really, really doubt this can be converted into actual public transit. Contracts have been signed, people have to make an ROI.
Yes, Old Toronto will always have more coverage. But even our ROW streetcars are still very slow and local service. We are an alpha city. But unlike every other alpha city, we have very little rapid transit coverage in our core. The DRL needs to be fast tracked, not Sheppard West. Sheppard West is a $1.5B boondoggle that provides little purpose other than getting deadhead trains to Yonge.
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borgo100
Active Member
No extension to Sherway Gardens to meet up with the Queensway LRT? I'd hope Milczyn would support OneCity if those 2 were on the map.
I figured both would be overkill, at least at this point. Maybe in 20 years it'll be justifiable.