TOperson
Active Member
I didn't know that you think of people on social assistance as "leeches on society". That explains a lot.
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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)
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TrickyRicky
Senior Member
TOperson, those Australian states do not sponser anti-gambling campaigns because gambling is epidemic, they sponser them as a PR campaign to deflect the fact that the state is using gambling profits to fund it's responsibility. We can argue about the localized impact of a casino on the adjacent neighbourhood of a potential site but the larger theme of gambling and addiction is of less relevence because Ontarians or Torontonians who want to gamble and are addicted to gambling can already do so in any number of ways. A casino in Markham or Mississauga will not reduce the tiny fraction of people who are addicted to Casino gambling in Toronto from going there and doing so, and they already go to Rama now.
The real question is do the benefitial impacts of a city casino out-weight the potential localized impacts o the facility? The answer in my opinion is that both the benefits and the localized impacts are much smaller than in the opinons we are being fed. In particular I feel this way about the exhibition location.
The real question is do the benefitial impacts of a city casino out-weight the potential localized impacts o the facility? The answer in my opinion is that both the benefits and the localized impacts are much smaller than in the opinons we are being fed. In particular I feel this way about the exhibition location.
TOperson
Active Member
Wait, what? I can't imagine how you got the idea that, of all possible pro-gambling PR strategies, a state government would set up gambling-addiction services for an addiction that doesn't really exist. It's true that state governments don't want anyone looking to closely at just how much revenue they get from gambling, but pretending to address addiction isn't how they go about it. What they do is claim it all goes into "general revenues" and they don't have a way to separate it out.
As for this "we can argue about the effects" as if it's all hypothetical, it's not hypothetical. Thousands of communities worldwide have already gone down this path and the effects are well documented. Increased access to gambling leads to more gambling which leads to more gambling addiction. Since no one needs to gamble, it's not a human right but just an entertainment option, why allow it all? People will find other ways to amuse themselves.
Also, who do you think is the bread-and-butter of places like Rama? It's not people looking for some fun on the occasional Thurs-Sun evening. It's the busloads of seniors who go there during the week, week in and week out. Is that really a good thing, in the aggregate? There are hundreds of other ways those seniors could spend their money and their time that would be better for them AND would circulate money in the economy.
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Tewder
Senior Member
Why allow alcohol or anything that somebody could get addicted to?
Wow, there are no words. I hope you never find yourself needing some kind of assistance. Addiction is a disease, not a choice. Not everyone on social assistance is too lazy to work, nor is everyone a leech. Maybe you need to actually get out there and meet some people outside of your bubble. It would be educational.
supercilious
New Member
Sounds like a cop out from people who are too afraid to own up to their own bad decisions
brockm
Active Member
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brockm
Active Member
Exactly. We should restrict access to everything in society, except the bare essentials. In fact, we don't need cities either. We shall all live off the land and live simple agrarian lifestyles. Maybe the Khmer Rouge had the right idea! </sarcasm>
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Hanlansboy
Active Member
First of all......
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...l-ills-report-says/article4753174/?cmpid=rss1
And secondly, yes, I despise welfare leeches! They bleed our system dry when they should be getting off their lazy ass and be working for a living like the rest of us. Welfare was never intended to be a way of life, but a temporary hand out until you are back on your feet. I live and work in the heart of downtown and see these people every day, it boils my blood. I work damn hard for what I have, yet these bums drink their welfare cheque, and spend the rest of the month begging for money and living in shelters, and you think it's ok for us to pay for it? Knock yourself out, but I for one despise the leeches. I've heard every fake sob story in the world, totally pathetic. The last one that was crying "I had cancer and couldn't work" to beg for money, I've survive colon cancer, twice, have only a part of my small bowel left, so don't give me that crap. The only reason people should receive social assistance is for situations beyond their control like legitimate illnesses (mental illness too), anyone else should, if physically able, work! I love the idea of making them earn their welfare, you want to leech off the government? Fine, work for it, if they refuse, cut them off, plain and simple. When left with no choice, believe me, they'll change their tune, fast! Case and point, I went to a local Western Union at a Money Mart to wire a few grand to my partners family in Central America. Stupid me, I I'd so on the first of the month. The line up of drunks and dead beats went outside the door and all the way down Yonge Street, all of them with welfare cheque in hand to be cashed. Each of them getting $650 cash, they were all talking (screaming actually, because they're were all drunk or stoned) about how they we're going to spend all their money in a day, and where the best spot to beg was. There are tens of thousands of these complete and utter frauds costing we, the hard working tax payer, millions each year. This has got to stop, if they don't want to work, it would literally be cheaper to let them rot in jail, but jail the way it should be, not the country clubs they are now, with free food, free shelter, free education, free cable TV and AC! I have to pay for these things! I suppose it's pointless saying any of this, there are way too many foolish bleeding hearts in this city, when in fact we need someone who will kick some ass and make things right for the working class, not the lazy ass! And no, I'm not rich, but im not poor either, my family is comfortable to say the least, but personally I work very hard to get what I have, why should I be forced to pay for the drudgery of society because they have zero self esteem and expect everything for free? There, does that "explain a lot"? At least I have the courage to stand by my convictions and express it, so many think exactly like myself, but are too afraid to speak up for fear of being labeled an elitist, a snob, a cold hearted bastard..I honest don't care what any one says, I know I'm correct, and that's all that matters, if you deny the truth, it's your choice to live in ignorance. But, imagine if we were able to eliminate all the welfare leeches and frauds, not to mention the WSIB frauds, or all those who manage to suck money from h government they don't deserve? We would save hundreds of millions and have a society with a strong work ethic, and no homeless, it is possible, if only our under worked, half brained politicians would show a little back bone and change our policies. This is very simple logic, I can't see why anyone would argue with it, unless they enjoy paying a small fortune in taxes to support these bums. Let the onslaught of unfounded insults begin....... (Admit it, some of you agree with me, speak up!)
Hanlansboy
Active Member
First of all......
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...l-ills-report-says/article4753174/?cmpid=rss1
And secondly, yes, I despise welfare leeches! They bleed our system dry when they should be getting off their lazy ass and be working for a living like the rest of us. Welfare was never intended to be a way of life, but a temporary hand out until you are back on your feet. I live and work in the heart of downtown and see these people every day, it boils my blood. I work damn hard for what I have, yet these bums drink their welfare cheque, and spend the rest of the month begging for money and living in shelters, and you think it's ok for us to pay for it? Knock yourself out, but I for one despise the leeches. I've heard every fake sob story in the world, totally pathetic. The last one that was crying "I had cancer and couldn't work" to beg for money, I've survive colon cancer, twice, have only a part of my small bowel left, so don't give me that crap. The only reason people should receive social assistance is for situations beyond their control like legitimate illnesses (mental illness too), anyone else should, if physically able, work!
I love the idea of making them earn their welfare, you want to leech off the government? Fine, work for it, if they refuse, cut them off, plain and simple. When left with no choice, believe me, they'll change their tune, fast! Case and point, I went to a local Western Union at a Money Mart to wire a few grand to my partners family in Central America. Stupid me, I did so on the first of the month. The line up of drunks and dead beats went outside the door and all the way down Yonge Street, all of them with welfare cheque in hand to be cashed. Each of them getting $650 cash, they were all talking (screaming actually, because they're were all drunk or stoned) about how they were going to spend all their money in a day, and where the best spot to beg was. There are tens of thousands of these complete and utter frauds costing we, the hard working tax payer, millions each year. This has got to stop, if they don't want to work, it would literally be cheaper to let them rot in jail, but jail the way it should be, not the country clubs they are now, with free food, free shelter, free education, free cable TV and AC! I have to pay for these things! I suppose it's pointless saying any of this, there are way too many foolish bleeding hearts in this city, when in fact we need someone who will kick some ass and make things right for the working class, not the lazy ass! And no, I'm not rich, but im not poor either, my family is comfortable to say the least, but personally I work very hard to get what I have, why should I be forced to pay for the drudgery of society because they have zero self esteem and expect everything for free? There, does that "explain a lot"? At least I have the courage to stand by my convictions and express it, so many think exactly like myself, but are too afraid to speak up for fear of being labeled an elitist, a snob, a cold hearted bastard..I honest don't care what any one says, I know I'm correct, and that's all that matters, if you deny the truth, it's your choice to live in ignorance. But, imagine if we were able to eliminate all the welfare leeches and frauds, not to mention the WSIB frauds, or all those who manage to suck money from the government they don't deserve? We would save hundreds of millions and have a society with a strong work ethic, and no homeless, it is possible, if only our under worked, half brained politicians would show a little back bone and change our policies. This is very simple logic, I can't see why anyone would argue with it, unless they enjoy paying a small fortune in taxes to support these bums. Let the onslaught of unfounded insults begin....... (Admit it, some of you agree with me, speak up!)
Hanlansboy
Active Member
Yeah, sure, I see them everyday, wasting our tax money. They're nothing but a puss fill boil on society's ass, just waiting to erupt with puss and blood. I don't buy into their sob stories, the more foolish however, do, and it's those weak links that create our cash strapped society.
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours sickens me.
RC8
Senior Member
Your wishful thinking is potentially very damaging to society. Toronto is one of the safest cities in the world, and availability of welfare and unconditional social programs has everything to do with it. Travel to places where welfare is hard to come by and you'll find the same dysfunctional people... except they'll be dangerous too.
Force these people to 'earn' their money and you'll push them into criminal activities. Jail them, you say? It would have been cheaper to give them a small cheque.
Welfare has been empirically demonstrated to provide the best fiscal and social results over and over again.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
TOperson, based on some of the other comments in this thread people are definately getting emotionally carried away on this subject. I fully accept that gambling addiction is real and can destroy lives. Other than that I stand by my earlier comment: Casino gambling already exists and is easily accessible for Toronto residents, this will not change if a casino is located in the GTA or downtown, Ontario is no different than Australia, Toronto is not special relative to all the other major cities in this country and the world who already have gaming facilities, government campaigns to promote responsible gambling are towards the hypocritical side, and the localized impact of a casino facility are very much hypothetical meaning the location and type of facility matters a great deal.
I think I have expressed my opinion clearly here so I will not argue further on this topic. I just wanted to say that I am stating this opinion because I don't feel the anti- or pro- arguments are grounded in realistic assumptions. I have no personal interest here in Toronto having a casino. Personally I feel gambling is dumb, I have never even bought a lottery ticket in my life. But I can't presume to know what the best use of other people's time and money is.
I think I have expressed my opinion clearly here so I will not argue further on this topic. I just wanted to say that I am stating this opinion because I don't feel the anti- or pro- arguments are grounded in realistic assumptions. I have no personal interest here in Toronto having a casino. Personally I feel gambling is dumb, I have never even bought a lottery ticket in my life. But I can't presume to know what the best use of other people's time and money is.
RC8
Senior Member
A better question would be: should we explore legalising under-age drinking if it seems like a good source of revenue?
Plenty of research shows banning alcohol leads to a rise in criminal activity - thus we tax it to internalise the damage it causes and we let it be (since people overwhelmingly favour its availability).
If the people of Toronto wanted a casino 'cause they really want to gamble and have fun with it this would be an entirely different debate. What is being discussed is opening a gambling facility to generate new revenue sources for the government. As things stand, most Torontonians don't want a casino anywhere near them. We would be imposing an activity with very well known negative social consequences on our city just for the sake of increasing revenue and nothing else.
When wards are fighting over who gets to host the casino because it's seen as such a positive thing, then we should be looking at full fledged legalisation of gambling. Until then, it's bad politics.