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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

$2.6m in revenues??? From a casino. I call total BS man!

You can call it anything you like, but that's all the City gets as the host city.


Property taxes alone would probably be $35 million on a billion dollar project. You are so full of sh&t.

Of course they get taxes as well, but you'd get that from any business operating where a casino would, so that's a bit of a wash. But it isn't $35 million, and it's based on sales, not the value of the project construction. In 2008, both NF casinos paid a total of $7.4 million in taxes to the City of Niagara Falls.

But OLG was appealing it's taxes, based on revenues being way down (and retroactive to 2003)...I don't know the outcome of that. But Windsor had it's taxes slashed $13 million down to $7 million.

So...even if you factor in city taxes (which is really more of a wash as something else would be built wherever a casino would go), it's still not even a drop in the bucket in terms of the City's budget.


There is no way your figures have any merit.

My figures are quoted from the NF city finance department...you pulled yours out of your ass.
 
You can call it anything you like, but that's all the City gets as the host city.




Of course they get taxes as well, but you'd get that from any business operating where a casino would, so that's a bit of a wash. But it isn't $35 million, and it's based on sales, not the value of the project construction. In 2008, both NF casinos paid a total of $7.4 million in taxes to the City of Niagara Falls.

But OLG was appealing it's taxes, based on revenues being way down (and retroactive to 2003)...I don't know the outcome of that. But Windsor had it's taxes slashed $13 million down to $7 million.

So...even if you factor in city taxes (which is really more of a wash as something else would be built wherever a casino would go), it's still not even a drop in the bucket in terms of the City's budget.




My figures are quoted from the NF city finance department...you pulled yours out of your ass.

Hey genius-

If you build a property worth a billion dollars the municipality will get about 3.3% of the value in annual property taxes. It's a hotel they are building. On top of that I'm sure there are additional municipal levies and fees. It's difficult to imagine that something on a grand scale wouldn't cost a billion or more so there you go.

But hey, I'm sure $33 million mean nothing to you right? How the hell is $33 million 'a wash'? Do you think it costs the city $33 million per year EXTRA in FIRE/POLICE/911/Snow Removal? I would guess it costs <$10m.

You are so fixated on your bias against gambling that you completely ignore the fiscal benefits, the entire point of this debate. Not a drop in the bucket huh? Take that socialist attitude to every revenue generating idea proposed and guess what you are left with? A massive budget deficit.

For the record, I also think the City should be allowing more billboards around town. They generate huge revenues in fees and taxes and are completely benign. I bet the City is leaving tens of millions in taxes on the table there as well. But hey, just another drop in the bucket right pal?
 
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Every sentence in your post is pure fabrication.

Keep your delusions alive yourself pal. I'm done arguing with your dogma. All I can say is I feel very fortunate that you do you not make the rules in this town. Thus far I find your opinions entirely objectionable, every single one.

CN Tower...out! (and looking forward to the new casino!)
 
No no, let's go through every sentence (ok, every paragraph):

If you build a property worth a billion dollars the municipality will get about 3.3% of the value in annual property taxes. It's a hotel they are building. On top of that I'm sure there are additional municipal levies and fees. It's difficult to imagine that something on a grand scale wouldn't cost a billion or more so there you go.

No one is going to spend a billion dollars here. Not even close. They want to make money fast. I'm thinking a fancy Hilton Garden Inn and convert the Cinesphere into a Sportsbook. Note that they supposedly spent a billion dollars on Fallsview, but despite having comparable commercial property tax rates in NF they somehow only pay $7.4 million in tax there. The property will not be assessed at its construction cost.

I do not know what municipal levies and fees you are talking about.

But hey, I'm sure $33 million mean nothing to you right? How the hell is $33 million 'a wash'? Do you think it costs the city $33 million per year EXTRA in FIRE/POLICE/911/Snow Removal? I would guess it costs <$10m.

These numbers are arbitrary. It will not be assessed at a billion dollars.

You are so fixated on your bias against gambling that you completely ignore the fiscal benefits, the entire point of this debate. Not a drop in the bucket huh? Take that socialist attitude to every revenue generating idea proposed and guess what you are left with? A massive budget deficit.

I think the point of this particular debate was on what a good location would be. spider has insisted the discussion should not be about whether the casino is a good idea, but people keep going off topic on him. However, if the entire point of the debate is whether a casino provides fiscal benefits, and we should not discuss whether it is good social policy, then that really predetermines the result of the debate. It will be a boring debate. But what I find most intriguing about this paragraph is the idea that it is somehow socialist of Mr. freshcutgrass to oppose "revenue generating ideas" from the provincial government. My understanding of traditional conservative ideology is that the government should not be involved in such revenue generating ideas. Why is the provincial government competing against private enterprise in casinos/hotels/entertainment? The whole thing is a distinctly socialist endeavour, albeit a bad one.

For the record, I also think the City should be allowing more billboards around town. They generate huge revenues in fees and taxes and are completely benign. I bet the City is leaving tens of millions in taxes on the table there as well. But hey, just another drop in the bucket right pal?

An interesting digression. You sound like the sort of individual who reads dystopian sci fi and thinks it sounds like a nice place to vacation. Is there some push by the billboard companies for more billboards, but the City keeps turning them down? How many more billboards would have to go up for the City to make an additional "tens of millions" in taxes? Would I be wrong in guessing "tens of thousands?" When the billboard tax (which, I note, Rob Ford opposed) was passed in 2009 it was to generate $10.4 million. So just for ten million (not tens) the City would have to encourage private billboard companies to double the number of billboards in the City. Which presumably they won't do, because (1) they're fighting the City over the tax and (2) they don't have anywhere close to enough advertisers to double the number of billboards in the city.

Also, a general point, Toronto doesn't have a budget deficit, the province does, which is why the province wants to build the casino.
 
An interesting digression. You sound like the sort of individual who reads dystopian sci fi and thinks it sounds like a nice place to vacation. Is there some push by the billboard companies for more billboards, but the City keeps turning them down? How many more billboards would have to go up for the City to make an additional "tens of millions" in taxes? Would I be wrong in guessing "tens of thousands?" When the billboard tax (which, I note, Rob Ford opposed) was passed in 2009 it was to generate $10.4 million. So just for ten million (not tens) the City would have to encourage private billboard companies to double the number of billboards in the City. Which presumably they won't do, because (1) they're fighting the City over the tax and (2) they don't have anywhere close to enough advertisers to double the number of billboards in the city.

Also, a general point, Toronto doesn't have a budget deficit, the province does, which is why the province wants to build the casino.

You're a character from Sesame Street and you're labeling me? How ignorant of you.

Is there some push by the billboard companies for more billboards, but the City keeps turning them down?

Are you kidding me?

You are absolutely clueless about the billboard advertising industry in this town but I won't hijack this thread with that issue. Needless to say the City is leaving millions on the table there as a result of some weird visual pollution ideology that hopefully will mature along with its adolescent angst driven proponents.
 
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When the billboard tax (which, I note, Rob Ford opposed) was passed in 2009 it was to generate $10.4 million. So just for ten million (not tens) the City would have to encourage private billboard companies to double the number of billboards in the City.

Seeing as that court ruling a year ago knocked all the teeth out of that tax, by exempting all pre-existing billboards (the city estimated a $9.3 million loss), they will have to double the amount of billboards in the city to just reach the original $10.4 million figure.

I know the city voted to appeal that ruling, but I haven't heard anything about it. And of course Rob Ford voted against the tax...it was for arts funding.

Sorry...no fabricated "facts" or ad hominem attacks here.
 
Hey genius-

If you build a property worth a billion dollars the municipality will get about 3.3% of the value in annual property taxes. It's a hotel they are building. On top of that I'm sure there are additional municipal levies and fees. It's difficult to imagine that something on a grand scale wouldn't cost a billion or more so there you go.

But hey, I'm sure $33 million mean nothing to you right? How the hell is $33 million 'a wash'? Do you think it costs the city $33 million per year EXTRA in FIRE/POLICE/911/Snow Removal? I would guess it costs <$10m.

The idea of the province building a casino for a billion is criminal. Putting money like that towards transit would have a far better pay-off in so many ways - as in it could be used by everyone to get somewhere. In a casino, most people go nowhere as the house typically wins.

Anyway, anything built of similar proportions would generate similar municipal taxes and levies that would go to funding police, fire etc. Hotel taxes don't get put into general revenue. The province does not allow it.

As for so-called "socialist attitudes" towards gambling, are you willfully choosing to ignore the anti-gambling sentiments of those who we could describe as being ardent "social conservatives"? My guess is that you forgot all about them in your moment of assuming that the word "socialist" could automatically be employed as a means of attempting to malign someone.
 
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Seeing as that court ruling a year ago knocked all the teeth out of that tax, by exempting all pre-existing billboards (the city estimated a $9.3 million loss), they will have to double the amount of billboards in the city to just reach the original $10.4 million figure.

I know the city voted to appeal that ruling, but I haven't heard anything about it. And of course Rob Ford voted against the tax...it was for arts funding.

Sorry...no fabricated "facts" or ad hominem attacks here.

The tax was intended to shut down all new billboards, not raise revenue. If it were about revenue only I'm sure Rob and others would have supported it.
 
For the record, I also think the City should be allowing more billboards around town. They generate huge revenues in fees and taxes and are completely benign. I bet the City is leaving tens of millions in taxes on the table there as well. But hey, just another drop in the bucket right pal?

This is "completely benign"?

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If we learned nothing else today we learned that C N Tower works in the outdoor advertising industry.
 
How about a gambling train on the new subway?
The province throws in a billion dollars and gets a 24/7 gambling train, gamblers won't have to drive to the casino and try to find a parking spot, the casino comes to them. Going downtown? take the right train and play a little black jack enroute.
No traffic or pollution, no mob or hookers (unless a hooker train follows the gambling train around).
Sounds like fun.
 
If we learned nothing else today we learned that C N Tower works in the outdoor advertising industry.

Of course. There is no other plausible explanation why billboards don't bother me. Has nothing to do with filling budgetary gaps so that we can continue to provide a high level of community services and support for local arts. Nothing.

Such. Narrow-minded. Thought.

Sad.
 
How about a gambling train on the new subway?
The province throws in a billion dollars and gets a 24/7 gambling train, gamblers won't have to drive to the casino and try to find a parking spot, the casino comes to them. Going downtown? take the right train and play a little black jack enroute.
No traffic or pollution, no mob or hookers (unless a hooker train follows the gambling train around).
Sounds like fun.

Spider, you make a very poor comedian. Hopefully you have other skills heretofore concealed.
 

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