Old City Hall Proposals

[Lenser]

Tewder: sad to see you too have chosen to use that vile term "special interest groups" as glib code for people and organizations whose views you dislike.

 

[Skeezix]

To add salt onto the wound, the Eaton Center is now ranked the 2nd largest mall in Canada. Absolutely insane that they would even suggest that another mall is needed here.

What an irony that would be. Many Torontonians fought in the 1960s to keep Old City Hall from being torn down to accommodate a mall (arguably the birth of Toronto's heritage preservation movement) and in the 2010s consultants are recommending that Old City Hall be converted to ... a mall.

 

[ShonTron]

Since it is all speculation at this point, and we're discussing an existing building, I moved this thread to BA&UD. Thanks!

 

[Tewder]

Tewder: sad to see you too have chosen to use that vile term "special interest groups" as glib code for people and organizations whose views you dislike.

Lenser, it's not the interest groups I dislike so much as the political pandering to them at the expense of the wider good, i.e. the ol' tail wagging the dog stuff that drives policy. Look, we all have special interests, I get it. We do sometimes need to look beyond them though. We do sometimes need to consider the forest, not just trees. In Toronto we are obsessed with saplings (insert gravy example here).

 

[Lenser]

Oh, I get it, alright, Tewder. Problem is, though, getting people to agree on what exactly constitutes "the wider good." Much like asking a random sampling of people what they think of when they hear the term "special interests."

 

[ssiguy2]

I think a mall with a large food court would be best as I have noticed that Toronto is suffering from a dangerous lack of Orange Julius and A&W.

 

[adma]

Hmm??, sounds to me like this will become Toronto's next money pit?

Sadly, the interior has gone to seed. Ugly fluorescent lights illuminate its hallways. The baseboards are chipped, the woodwork faded. Some of its old rooms have been converted into modern government offices and courtrooms completely out of sync with the original style of the place. The interior courtyard, sometimes talked of as the future home of a City of Toronto museum, has been turned into a kind of parking lot and loading space. In short, shameless neglect has turned an invaluable piece of Toronto’s heritage into a bit of a dump.

By your tone, you almost sound like you're saying it'd be better off mothballed or torn down.

 

[Tewder]

Oh, I get it, alright, Tewder. Problem is, though, getting people to agree on what exactly constitutes "the wider good." Much like asking a random sampling of people what they think of when they hear the term "special interests."

One would expect those at the reins of the city to have a better vision of this than a random sampling. That they'd even contemplate turning Old City Hall into a mall would suggest otherwise... or are we now deconstructing the notion of a 'greater good' to the point where it doesn't include history and heritage?? Only in Toronto.

 

[M.R.Victor]

My personal preference would be something that celebrates intellectual achievement.

Perhaps a semi-permanent debate and lecture hall, inviting the top thinkers of our time (I personally like Slavoj Zizek, Richard Dawkins, and so on) and hosting academic debates open to the public.

Topics handled coud range from philosophy to astronomy, from urban planning to minority rights, economic development, architecture and everything in between.

My fantasy world involves a Toronto which, having undergone a cultural renaissance, picks up the torch of intellectual enlightenment by dedicated a grand, old, very central venue to that pursuit.

Is intellectual tourism a thing?

 

[muller877]

Even if that office space could be replaced elsewhere, guaranteed? Normally I wouldn't want to do something like this, but Toronto desperately needs a large park in the core of the city (we already lack should space and will need it even more with the massive influx of condos going up now and in the future) and this would be the best possible location. We already have David Pecaut Square here, but it is much too small. Clearing the site would roughly triple the potential public space. Disperse some of the Metro Hall office space to different buildings (Old City Hall, Mirvish/Gehry Towers, other buildings with vacancies; Deco?).

We have lots of parks and open spaces downtown compared to other cities. Just in a few blocks around this site is Clarence Square, the green-space by the Ritz/CBC, the roundhouse area, etc. And walk a bit farther and you're at NPS, the waterfront and Grange Park.

Why does Toronto "need" a large park right downtown? Purpose?

If you really want to extend the park I would be looking towards Roy Thompson Hall. They have the parking lot on the south and the sunken water feature on the North that can be modified into open spaces at lot more effectively.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

We have lots of parks and open spaces downtown compared to other cities. Just in a few blocks around this site is Clarence Square, the green-space by the Ritz/CBC, the roundhouse area, etc. And walk a bit farther and you're at NPS, the waterfront and Grange Park.

Why does Toronto "need" a large park right downtown? Purpose?

If you really want to extend the park I would be looking towards Roy Thompson Hall. They have the parking lot on the south and the sunken water feature on the
North that can be modified into open spaces at lot more effectively.

What the city "needs" (perhaps want is a better phrase) isn't a merely large park - but a huge, multi-block one in the core along the lines Hyde Park, Boston Commons, etc. Little dinky ones won't really do. Mind you, that ship has sailed a long, long time ago - but it is a very, very tempting thought exercise to level the block between Allan Gardens and Moss Park.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

... or even if we maintained and developed the little urban parks that do exist. They could be green gems in the right hands and with the right stewardship. In their current state they tend to be rather uninviting, over grown plots of patched grass and dog poop. Then again gardens and beautification are gravy so there's that.

 

[Armour]

Parks like Clarence Park are puny and can barely service anyone. I'm not saying that there is no value in parkettes, but we need much larger green spaces. Even the park I have envisioned is smaller the what I would like. It would be nice to see a massive park about twice the size as Trinity Bellwoods, somewhere in the core. Remember, we need to take into account the future growth of the city. How many thousands more people will be living downtown in 10, 20, 30 years? Pocket parks won't suffice forever.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Queen's Park and Trinity Bellwoods Park are almost the same size, except for a large building on Queen's Park. How dare they use the southern part of Queen's Park for the Ontario Legislation Building. But then, it was previously occupied by a lunatic asylum. Not much of a difference.

 

[CanadianNational]

This building was not built as a money-maker, but rather as a monument. I can't think of many commercial uses that spring to mind that would be sympathetic to it - especially any enterprises that have making a heaps of profit on their mind.
A central circulation library is a good idea. I like the idea of a Museum Of Toronto in this locale, quite a bit.
The courtyard is rather large. Having the building renovated into a theatre - a rivalrous Toronto Opera house is a fun thought, or a singular ballet house.
If it's juxaposition one's looking for, having it house a new planetarium and a branch of the ROM could be done with fairly low disruption to the interior.
Having it as an outpost of the Canadian National Portrait Gallery would be pretty cool - that, and of the National Gallery.
It could also function well as an arm of the AGO, the Tate, the Guggenheim (what could be done with that courtyard!), MOCCA, The Met, you name it.