Admiral Beez
Superstar
My high school kids have their first online classes or Zoom chats with their teachers today. This means the usual 3pm wake up time is over.
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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
AlbertC
Superstar
I don't disagree there are very real risks.............
But I understand the 2-fold dilemma.
First, the risk that people have simply had as much as they can or will take, and if law-breaking starts in earnest, there will be no way to put that genie back in the bottle.
Second, the Italian state was already financially precarious, many of its banks have less than stellar balance sheets to boot.
For Italy, an emergency loan from the E-U is almost certainly necessary..........and it will be large.
Absent that, I have to wonder, and I'm sure the Italian government is too, about its ability to pay its bills. Not a theoretical concern, a literal one.
An Italian financial crisis is certain – the big question is how contagious it is | Larry Elliott
The EU can reshape policy and let governments borrow more to counter the crisis or let Italy go the way of Greecewww.theguardian.com
Italy’s struggle with coronavirus threatens all of the eurozone
Italy’s struggle with coronavirus threatens all of the eurozone
Emergency measures are essential but carry risks for the multitude of small, family-run businesseswww.ft.com
It's an unfortunate dilemma which seems like a lose-lose scenario. Spain is also moving towards a similar situation.
Singing stops in Italy as fear and social unrest mount
Three weeks on from start of lockdown, Italians are seeing that everything is not all right
www.theguardian.com
Poor and vulnerable hardest hit by pandemic in Spain
Rate of infection in working class areas in and around Barcelona is nearly seven times higher than upmarket areas
www.theguardian.com
AlbertC
Superstar
How long does coronavirus live on different surfaces?
More people are staying indoors to avoid contact with people potentially infected by Covid-19. But in light of a recent report from the US’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that said RNA from the virus that causes Covid-19 was found in the Diamond Princess ship 17 days after its passengers had left, what are the risks of handling packages, groceries and what scientists call “high-touch” surfaces?
www.theguardian.com
More people are staying indoors to avoid contact with people potentially infected by Covid-19. But in light of a recent report from the US’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that said RNA from the virus that causes Covid-19 was found in the Diamond Princess ship 17 days after its passengers had left, what are the risks of handling packages, groceries and what scientists call “high-touch” surfaces?
How long does coronavirus live on different surfaces?
Evidence of Covid-19 was found on a cruise ship 17 days after passengers left. What are the risks of handling packages and groceries?
www.theguardian.com
MetroMan
Senior Member
How long does coronavirus live on different surfaces?
More people are staying indoors to avoid contact with people potentially infected by Covid-19. But in light of a recent report from the US’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that said RNA from the virus that causes Covid-19 was found in the Diamond Princess ship 17 days after its passengers had left, what are the risks of handling packages, groceries and what scientists call “high-touch” surfaces?
How long does coronavirus live on different surfaces?
Evidence of Covid-19 was found on a cruise ship 17 days after passengers left. What are the risks of handling packages and groceries?
There’s a difference between the virus’ RNA being found on surfaces after 2 weeks and it being a viable virus that can infect humans. It’s the same difference between coming across a bear in the woods and crossing your legs on a bear rug in your living room.
Irishmonk
Senior Member
Maybe they think that shutting down streets to cars and turning them into pedestrian zones is a gateway to hordes of infected people looting stores and creating general mayhem. ( similar to what happens in most pandemic/dystopian movies)
Northern Light
Superstar
Possible. But if true, would be like your comment above about irrational fear.
More likely, a transportation department that has never failed to find a reason to stifle pedestrian or cycling oriented improvements has found a new justification for their mediocrity.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
I do agree lockdowns are not the best but what else could Spain and Italy do right now.
If they don't shut things down they were likely looking at 100s of thousands of deaths it seems.
If they don't shut things down they were likely looking at 100s of thousands of deaths it seems.
Northern Light
Superstar
Toronto presser is this morning, instead of the usual 3pm.
Toronto's CMO is painting a very grim picture in which she worries we are on a NYC trajectory. No new data since yesterday presented thus far on this.
The modelling provided by various 'experts', I put that in quotes because the models do not all agree, and by necessity must work with assumptions made by their authors; is not conclusive in this regard.
However, it does show a negative trendline on ICU usage, which was expected. Should the growth be unabated, we most certainly do have a large problem on our hands. We don't have data that supports or disproves such a likelihood at this point.
That said, the tone is very negative and comes with some steps to sound tough on enforcement, of isolation in particular, and social distance as well. On the latter though, its not clear there's anything new in today's announcement.
Here's the City's release on this:
From City's presser, this quote:
“If we do not take these actions today, the city will see substantially increased loss of life, and may not begin to recover, economically and as a society, until the end of 2020.”
Also a suggestion that these measures may last up to 12 weeks. That would bring us to the the 3rd/4th week of June
Toronto's CMO is painting a very grim picture in which she worries we are on a NYC trajectory. No new data since yesterday presented thus far on this.
The modelling provided by various 'experts', I put that in quotes because the models do not all agree, and by necessity must work with assumptions made by their authors; is not conclusive in this regard.
However, it does show a negative trendline on ICU usage, which was expected. Should the growth be unabated, we most certainly do have a large problem on our hands. We don't have data that supports or disproves such a likelihood at this point.
That said, the tone is very negative and comes with some steps to sound tough on enforcement, of isolation in particular, and social distance as well. On the latter though, its not clear there's anything new in today's announcement.
Here's the City's release on this:
From City's presser, this quote:
“If we do not take these actions today, the city will see substantially increased loss of life, and may not begin to recover, economically and as a society, until the end of 2020.”
Also a suggestion that these measures may last up to 12 weeks. That would bring us to the the 3rd/4th week of June
Richard White
Senior Member
As much as I like Eileen DeVilla I do feel she is going a tad overboard right now. Yes she is worried that we will down the road of NYC but at the same time shes freaking out. She needs to take a deep breathe, calm down and stop working towards locking everyone in their homes.
She was quoted as saying the new measures could be in place until July 1st which I find a bit extreme.
My belief is that the longer you lock everyone down, the more likely they are to get annoyed with those giving orders and ignore them. You can only lock people up for so long before they get annoyed and do their own thing.
I get that her job is to safeguard the health of Torontonians but you can't just lock everyone down for 3 months which is where this is likely headed.
Northern Light
Superstar
A chart from this morning's presser shows data up to yesterday, nothing new here, but some may find value in the visual:
So what this shows is that roughly 37% of ICU beds are occupied by Covid patients.
Those lines are trends, are not indicative of system capacity.
So what this shows is that roughly 37% of ICU beds are occupied by Covid patients.
Those lines are trends, are not indicative of system capacity.
Tell that to the Italians
Northern Light
Superstar
Today's update from the province.
Important Items:
New cases up 21.7%; that's high, though unclear how much of that is now from a declining backlog of tests.
Mortality: We're up to 37 deaths.
Mortality rate: 1.5% provincially, that's above the Canadian average. *** However, Ontario has the lowest testing rate per capita of any province, which partially explains that number.
Important Items:
New cases up 21.7%; that's high, though unclear how much of that is now from a declining backlog of tests.
Mortality: We're up to 37 deaths.
Mortality rate: 1.5% provincially, that's above the Canadian average. *** However, Ontario has the lowest testing rate per capita of any province, which partially explains that number.
I think that awful situation at the nursing home in Bobcaygeon is somewhat skewing the percentages
Admiral Beez
Superstar
From what I'm reading, the Italians are beginning to rebel. For starters, they're beginning to run out of both money and food.
This is the gist of the article I was just reading. I'll circle back and find that link.
The Italians acted late and have been under lockdown for quite a while, and yes it's starting to show. I think Toronto's point now is that we can't wait as long as the Italians did. People need to understand the whole concept of short term pain for long term gain. The longer we wait, the worse it gets.