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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

Holy Sh*t.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1438978798368788481

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W. K. Lis said:
Instead of cancelling Montréal's street festivals, like what Toronto did, Montréal EXPANDED their street festivals.

From link.


Yes, I see people with masks in the video.
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On the other hand, Québec has 11 new cases per day per 100,000, compared to 5 in Ontario.
 
Bayer said:
On the other hand, Québec has 11 new cases per day per 100,000, compared to 5 in Ontario.
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Ugh. Quebec also has one COVID-related ICU per 89,000 people, while Ontario has one per 79,000. At this point, the number of cases doesn't matter, just hospitalizations. In fact, that should have been the measurement at any point.

Correlation also does not equal causation. How many cases are these street festivals causing? I don't think they're a factor in COVID cases.
 
DirectionNorth said:
Ugh. Quebec also has one COVID-related ICU per 89,000 people, while Ontario has one per 79,000. At this point, the number of cases doesn't matter, just hospitalizations. In fact, that should have been the measurement at any point.

Correlation also does not equal causation. How many cases are these street festivals causing? I don't think they're a factor in COVID cases.
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Better to s-p-r-e-a-d out the pedestrians out onto the roadway instead of crowding them on narrow sidewalks. Easier to be 2m apart instead of bumping into each other.
 
DirectionNorth said:
Ugh. Quebec also has one COVID-related ICU per 89,000 people, while Ontario has one per 79,000. At this point, the number of cases doesn't matter, just hospitalizations. In fact, that should have been the measurement at any point.

Correlation also does not equal causation. How many cases are these street festivals causing? I don't think they're a factor in COVID cases.
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The number of cases matters, because many people who are not hospitalized suffer long-term consequences. Edit: Also, there were 313 people in hospital with COVID yesterday in Ontario compared to 264 in Québec, which means Québec's rate is more than 40% higher considering its population.

I didn't make any specific claims regarding festivals because it is difficult to determine how many cases are caused by transient contacts. The same goes for public transit. The only certainty is that the COVID death rate in Québec since the beginning of the pandemic is nearly twice that of Ontario.
 
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Bayer said:
The number of cases matters, because many people who are not hospitalized suffer long-term consequences. Edit: Also, there were 313 people in hospital with COVID yesterday in Ontario compared to 264 in Québec, which means Québec's rate is more than 40% higher considering its population.
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In hospital that happened to have COVID (ie. not serious), or in hospital because/with serious COVID?
Bayer said:
I didn't make any specific claims regarding festivals because it is difficult to determine how many cases are caused by transient contacts.
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When you reply to a post about Montreal's street festivals by saying that they have more COVID-cases, it makes it seem so.
Bayer said:
The same goes for public transit. The only certainty is that the COVID death rate in Québec since the beginning of the pandemic is nearly twice that of Ontario.
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It really depends on what the society as a whole prioritizes.

In Ontario, we have a very safety-oriented culture. That's fine, but Quebec may value different things, as does Alberta, the US, and so on.

Quebec has had about 11,000 COVID deaths since the beginning of the pandemic. They had about 72,000 deaths total in 2020 (the 11,000 figure includes 2021 deaths). Is it worth lockdown to avoid those deaths? That's not up to us to say. Ontario (and federal) policy are my main concerns.
 
DirectionNorth said:
In hospital that happened to have COVID (ie. not serious), or in hospital because/with serious COVID?
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I am not aware of any statistics where such a distinction is made. Those people are hospitalized with COVID, which means they have a serious case.

Values can be debated, but when we are talking literally about life and death, I am not interested. Québec (where my entire family lives) has good public health measures at the moment, but people there are indeed less careful. What is happening in Alberta and Sask, on the other hand, is the result of negligence and was entirely predictable as soon as most public health measures were eliminated. Ontario seems to have reached a point where cases are relatively stable, which will hopefully buy us some time until vaccination rates improve and vaccines can be made available to younger kids.
 
Bayer said:
I am not aware of any statistics where such a distinction is made. Those people are hospitalized with COVID, which means they have a serious case.
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OK, I see what you mean.
Bayer said:
Values can be debated, but when we are talking literally about life and death, I am not interested. Québec (where my entire family lives) has good public health measures at the moment, but people there are indeed less careful. What is happening in Alberta and Sask, on the other hand, is the result of negligence and was entirely predictable as soon as most public health measures were eliminated. Ontario seems to have reached a point where cases are relatively stable, which will hopefully buy us some time until vaccination rates improve and vaccines can be made available to younger kids.
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There are lots of things in life that are dangerous. Eventually, we'll all be dead, and while COVID is more dangerous than most, I think this question needs to be discussed before the rest: What would we give to have zero COVID transmission? Zero COVID hospitalizations? Zero COVID deaths? More importantly, is it a price that we, as a society, can accept and afford?
At one point, you won't be able to control COVID. The only things you can do that make any large difference at this point are vaccine mandates, or having a huge lockdown, which I don't think can happen.
 
At what point do we just accept the fact that Covid-19 will be around forever and not eradicated like Smallpox?

I am by no means Anti-Vaxx or a conspiracy theorist but we cannot reasonably live under restrictions forever. At some point we will need to accept the fact that Cobid-19 is here to stay and move on with our lives.
 
DirectionNorth said:
OK, I see what you mean.

There are lots of things in life that are dangerous. Eventually, we'll all be dead, and while COVID is more dangerous than most, I think this question needs to be discussed before the rest: What would we give to have zero COVID transmission? Zero COVID hospitalizations? Zero COVID deaths? More importantly, is it a price that we, as a society, can accept and afford?
At one point, you won't be able to control COVID. The only things you can do that make any large difference at this point are vaccine mandates, or having a huge lockdown, which I don't think can happen.
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They said the same about Smallpox.
For thousands of years, there was an unbroken chain of transmission, that killed the poor all the way up to royalty.
Through hard work and perseverance, that chain ended in the 1970s.
We could and should do the same with COVID (along with the flu and other deadly diseases), but we’ve for too long ignored the social contract, and people need to stop thinking their personal needs outweigh those of the rest of the world.
The problem isn’t the price society is willing to pay; it’s the price individuals are.
 
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