Next Mayor of Toronto?

[kEiThZ]

I just want to clear this up so that way it isn't perpetuated. The Destination marketing fee is not a tax created by the government. They are taxes that the GTHA (greater toronto hotel association) imposes on its members which then go towards destination marketing. They never go to government coffers and only go to Tourism Toronto. These fees have no impact on citizens unless for some reason you decide to stay in a local hotel. It's essentially a visitors tax, which is awesome. So it might be a good idea to omit DMFs from that list of taxes imposed in the future.

1. I don't know if a visitor's tax can be described as awesome. It raises the costs for tourists visiting TO. I don't know how most people feel, but I always resent paying these charges when I am in other cities. I can't imagine visitors to Toronto would feel any different.

2. So what if the money isn't going into the general revenue pool? It's not like the city doesn't exercise any influence over the organization. Have a look at the board for Tourism Toronto and then tell me that they are completely independent of the city:

http://www.seetorontonow.com/About-Us/BoardOfDirectors.aspx

 

[nfitz]

How can you claim that garbage charges went down for any homeowner? It didn't exist before Miller came along.

Didn't people who chose the small bin get a rebate?

 

[kEiThZ]

Didn't people who chose the small bin get a rebate?

One time rebate. Lifetime annual paid membership with no out clause. Best deal ever.....for the City.

 

[kEiThZ]

Nick,

I don't want you to get the impression that I don't support the taxes though. I understand the city needs revenue. And if it has to raise taxes so be it. And a garbage tax based on consumption isn't all that bad a way to do it. What bothers me is that all that extra revenue didn't result in any reduction of the deficit. It mostly went towards expanding the city's payroll and barely spent on things that matter day-to-day for the average resident (like transit for example).

 

[Paleo]

It mostly went towards expanding the city's payroll and barely spent on things that matter day-to-day for the average resident (like transit for example).

Increasing the operating subsidy to the TTC for 20 min service minimums and all day service on most routes doesn't count? That's "expanding the city's payroll" in your words.

 

[Glen]

The vast majority of taxes Toronto residents pay go to the provincial and federal government. That money is rarely reinvested into Toronto. The problems facing Toronto's financial future go way beyond David Miller.

That is the same everywhere.

 

[lordmandeep]

Not only is it the same everywhere, the budget shortfalls have gotten far worse.

Back in the day the city was given far less powers, had fewer places to collect revenue from and got hardly anything from other govts unlike today.

Considering the hundreds of millions the city gets from the federal and provincial and greater tax revenues, the city should be in far better fiscal shape today.

Yes the city needs more money from other govts, however unlike in the Harris days it now gets a lot of money from other govts.

Increasing the operating subsidy to the TTC for 20 min service minimums and all day service on most routes doesn't count? That's "expanding the city's payroll" in your words.

The city budget has gone up 2.7 billion+ dollars in 6 years and you really think its all gone to important things like the TTC, Roads and infrastructure.

Its mostly gone to increasing pay of city employees. Of course they should get some sort of increase but the increases that were given are clearly not sustainable and are a major reason why the city is in the hole every year and by a larger amount.

I think you guys must be joking, if you think the city budget is in order.

 

[jn_12]

1. I don't know if a visitor's tax can be described as awesome. It raises the costs for tourists visiting TO. I don't know how most people feel, but I always resent paying these charges when I am in other cities. I can't imagine visitors to Toronto would feel any different.

2. So what if the money isn't going into the general revenue pool? It's not like the city doesn't exercise any influence over the organization. Have a look at the board for Tourism Toronto and then tell me that they are completely independent of the city:

http://www.seetorontonow.com/About-Us/BoardOfDirectors.aspx

1. It has no effect on tourists. People do not choose one destination over another based on DMFs. If you resent it then that's your problem (and you should probably get used to it because they might become the norm across the province as per the Sorbara report). From a tourism policy perspective it's a preferred route to take, especially for a sector that is underfunded already.

2. I know who is on the board thanks and frankly I don't care. It's normal for DMOs to have members of the private and public sectors. There's actually as much representation from the province as from city hall, and both of those are outnumbered by the private sector. The fact is the city doesn't see the money and it has no say in how the money is used beyond the input from Miller and Pantalone, which is probably less significant than everyone else on the board. If you would prefer the DMO didn't have any public input so as to avoid the appearance that the public sector has their hands in the money then you're really missing the bigger picture.

 

[Paleo]

The city budget has gone up 2.7 billion+ dollars in 6 years and you really think its all gone to important things like the TTC, Roads and infrastructure.

Its mostly gone to increasing pay of city employees. Of course they should get some sort of increase but the increases that were given are clearly not sustainable and are a major reason why the city is in the hole every year and by a larger amount.

I think you guys must be joking, if you think the city budget is in order.

Just throwing out 2.7 billion or "doubled in x years" means squat. The city budget increases look amazingly similar to budget bloat in neighbouring GTA cities.

I guess if you want to lay blame, you can start with the police. They got the ball rolling.

 

[nfitz]

I look at how much I pay in taxes to the City, the Province, and the Feds. I pay much more to either the Province and the Feds, than I do to the city in taxes. Yet when I look at my services ... everything is pretty much coming from the City or the Province. Most of my taxes goes to the Feds ... but what services do I receive from them? The only two big ones that jump at me are CPP and UI ... and those aren't even funded out of income taxes!

Everyday I see where my city taxes are going. And I see where a lot of provincial tax money is going; but I'm mystified with what the Feds do with my money ... the only operational spending I see on a regular basis is VIA Rail ... and they get what ... $100 million a year ... $3 from every Canadian ...

I don't see that moderate increases in what the City is getting that big a deal; all said and done I'm still paying less than I would for the same value house in Mississauga ... and look at what crappy services they have in comparision!

 

[afransen]

The feds transfer a lot of money to the provinces, to help pay for those services.

 

[lordmandeep]

Yes the tens of billions the federal govt spends on Health care is transferred all to the provinces.

 

[GraphicMatt]

That is the same everywhere.

Absolutely it is - and most Canadian municipalities, especially as they get bigger, face financial issues that require funding injections from the Provincial and Federal governments.

 

[kEiThZ]

I look at how much I pay in taxes to the City, the Province, and the Feds. I pay much more to either the Province and the Feds, than I do to the city in taxes. Yet when I look at my services ... everything is pretty much coming from the City or the Province. Most of my taxes goes to the Feds ... but what services do I receive from them? The only two big ones that jump at me are CPP and UI ... and those aren't even funded out of income taxes!

Everyday I see where my city taxes are going. And I see where a lot of provincial tax money is going; but I'm mystified with what the Feds do with my money ... the only operational spending I see on a regular basis is VIA Rail ... and they get what ... $100 million a year ... $3 from every Canadian ...

I don't see that moderate increases in what the City is getting that big a deal; all said and done I'm still paying less than I would for the same value house in Mississauga ... and look at what crappy services they have in comparision!

When it comes to revenue, sure your fight is with the province and the feds. And there isn't anybody here that would dispute the fact that senior levels of government need to contribute more to municipalities.

Stepping away from that generic argument to the more specific case of Toronto, you'll find that province under McGuinty has accorded Toronto significant revenue raising powers and monetary transfers, far out of proportion of what any other municipality in the province receives. London, Ottawa and Hamilton face simliar challenges. Where are their new revenue raising powers? Yet, they don't whine anywhere near as much as Toronto. They do their best to live within their means and balance the books. 300 million in new revenue generating powers that Miller dipped into as soon as he got them. And to what effect? The deficit is larger than when he started his first term. How do you blame the province for that? That revenue transfer could have erased the deficit if you look at the gap that was there under Lastman.

I wouldn't even mind the extra spending if it had gone to something useful. Can you point out any tangible improvement for the average citizen besides slightly better bus service that Miller has provided?

 

[kEiThZ]

Increasing the operating subsidy to the TTC for 20 min service minimums and all day service on most routes doesn't count? That's "expanding the city's payroll" in your words.

That barely cost anything in the grand scheme of things because most TTC bus routes were already there anyway. The 20 min bus service commitment does not come close to accounting for billions in new spending.