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New Transit Funding Sources

If the Cons want to keep the DVP/Gardiner toll-free then tell them it's up for sale. It would put the Tories in a horrible predicament and yet force them to either buy-it, increase Toronto transfers for the next 40 years to pay for the lost revenue, upkeep, and new Eastern section, or shut up. The City should turn around WELL before the next election and put him on the hot seat.
 
ssiguy2 said:
If the Cons want to keep the DVP/Gardiner toll-free then tell them it's up for sale. It would put the Tories in a horrible predicament and yet force them to either buy-it, increase Toronto transfers for the next 40 years to pay for the lost revenue, upkeep, and new Eastern section, or shut up. The City should turn around WELL before the next election and put him on the hot seat.
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Not really - the province can legally take over the highway without paying a cent - and force the city to eat the cost of maintenance up at that if they really wanted to.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Not really - the province can legally take over the highway without paying a cent - and force the city to eat the cost of maintenance up at that if they really wanted to.

AoD
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They could. But the politics of that would enrage the 416. It's smart for the mayor to do that.
 
Hypothetically you maybe right with Queen's Park simply taking over the Gardiner/DVP and not paying cent. I don't think even the Tories would try such a maneuver. Of course if they wanted to ply hardball then there is nothing the Tories could do about Toronto blocking off all the exits of the Gardiner as soon as the ramps merge with the city streets. Of course even if Toronto didn't want to get that extreme, all they have to do is reconfigure the street lights from the off-ramps so instead of turning colour every 1 minute, they change every 10 minutes. The traffic would back up to Burlington.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Not really - the province can legally take over the highway without paying a cent - and force the city to eat the cost of maintenance up at that if they really wanted to.
AoD
Click to expand...

When MTO transferred highways to municipalities in the late 1990's, they generally looked at the upcoming (5 year) major maintenance costs (repaving, bridge work, but not snow plowing or guiderail repair), and transferred that amount of money to the municipality. In no situation did the municipality have to pay the province to acquire the stretch of road.

If the province took the DVP and Gardiner and no money was exchanged, the general public would view this as fair. If the City of Toronto would ask for money for the upload, they would be viewed extremely greedy and unreasonable.
 
kEiThZ said:
They could. But the politics of that would enrage the 416. It's smart for the mayor to do that.
Click to expand...

Well no, but taking over the Gardiner/DVP and pay for the maintenance as well? That is somewhat expensive (given the renewal) but politically popular in the 905. I am not even sure how unpopular the move to do so and force the city to pay for it in the inner 416 either.

BurlOak said:
When MTO transferred highways to municipalities in the late 1990's, they generally looked at the upcoming (5 year) major maintenance costs (repaving, bridge work, but not snow plowing or guiderail repair), and transferred that amount of money to the municipality. In no situation did the municipality have to pay the province to acquire the stretch of road.

If the province took the DVP and Gardiner and no money was exchanged, the general public would view this as fair. If the City of Toronto would ask for money for the upload, they would be viewed extremely greedy and unreasonable.
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Of course the municipality wouldn't - it's downloading a long-term responsibility that is not cost-neutral at all in the long run. If the province is interested in aligning responsibility in a cost-neutral manner, they would have provided a per annum transfer to the municipality for having taken that up, in perpetuity (or legally require municipalities raise their property taxes by x% to cover that added expense, as a provincial initiative). But of course, that wasn't the whole point of the exercise in downloading (i.e. moving expenses downward to vacate taxroom for provincial tax reduction)- municipalities having to pay for it on top would be like paying for someone to rob you.

In fact, I believe one argument I have heard re: downloading and amalgamation in Toronto is that the province knew there is a hump in costs coming up in the inner suburbs from aging infrastructure - and it provided a convenient early exit from a portfolio that would have been a drag on provincial finances.

AoD
 
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ssiguy2 said:
If the Cons want to keep the DVP/Gardiner toll-free then tell them it's up for sale. It would put the Tories in a horrible predicament and yet force them to either buy-it, increase Toronto transfers for the next 40 years to pay for the lost revenue, upkeep, and new Eastern section, or shut up. The City should turn around WELL before the next election and put him on the hot seat.
Click to expand...
I have the feeling this debate will drag on to 2018, and we will find out how the Ontario PC's had managed to yet again shoot themselves in the foot.
 
WislaHD said:
I have the feeling this debate will drag on to 2018, and we will find out how the Ontario PC's had managed to yet again shoot themselves in the foot.
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I think this is an issue that would work in their favour - and I wouldn't not put it pass JT to basically play this issue both ways. I am not sure how sincere the latter is about tolls supporting transit given his record - but I am sure he is sincere enough to want someone to take care of the long-term costs of both highways (and if I am cynical enough, to forever put it out of reach of downtowners to do anything about).

AoD
 
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