New Transit Funding Sources

[gweed123]

Thanks gweed. I think it is time. And not just for Toronto either.

I think that it should be multi-layered, with different revenues going to different things:

Provincial/Metrolinx:
-Tolls on all 400 series highways, but beginning with the 401 Express
-1% GTHA Sales Tax
-These funds would be divided up, 70% transit, 30% road infrastructure

Municipal:
-Vehicle Registration Fees
-Parking Levees

What I'd like to see is transit projects broken down into 1 of 2 categories: Regional, or Local. Regional would include things like GO expansion, and other projects that make up the primary transit network (subways, and certain LRTs and BRTs). Local projects would be things like all of Transit City except for Eglinton, the Dundas BRT/LRT, etc.

To make it fair, I think that every region should be able to designate 1 non-GO project as "Regional". Durham would have the Durham BRT, Toronto would have the ESLRT (or the DRL since the ESLRT is already funded), Peel would have the Hurontario LRT, York Region would have the Highway 7 BRT or the Yonge Extension, Halton would have the Dundas BRT. All other projects would be deemed as "local" projects.

Regional projects would be funded entirely from the Provincial/Metrolinx revenue stream. So theoretically a region could do nothing extra and still get at least 1 transit project in addition to GO.

Local projects would be funded 50% by Municipal revenue streams, and a combination of Metrolinx and federal funds for the remaining 50%. This allows some municipalities, if they so choose, to be more aggressive in their transit expansion, while others can just take what Metrolinx gives them.

 

[BurlOak]

I think that it should be multi-layered, with different revenues going to different things:

Provincial/Metrolinx:
-Tolls on all 400 series highways, but beginning with the 401 Express
-1% GTHA Sales Tax
-These funds would be divided up, 70% transit, 30% road infrastructure

Municipal:
-Vehicle Registration Fees
-Parking Levees

I am not a great fan of road tolls, the others I like more. One option is to discourage long distnace comutes by just applying tax to gas - this hit those who drive far more, and also those with inefficient vehicles more. Tolling only 400 series highway punished people based on geography. Why is someone driving in on 400 so much worse that someone commuting in on Dufferin. We shold be encouraging people to drive on highways and not on the more local roads.

Maybe with GPS tolling, you could come up with something better, but I do not want all the tolling revenue to go towards a toll collection mechanism - it should go towards transit.

Congestion charges also sound good, but does it apply only to the person from Mississauga driving to Toronto, or also the person going from Toronto to Mississauga?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I am not a great fan of road tolls, the others I like more. One option is to discourage long distnace comutes by just applying tax to gas - this hit those who drive far more, and also those with inefficient vehicles more. Tolling only 400 series highway punished people based on geography. Why is someone driving in on 400 so much worse that someone commuting in on Dufferin. We shold be encouraging people to drive on highways and not on the more local roads.

Maybe with GPS tolling, you could come up with something better, but I do not want all the tolling revenue to go towards a toll collection mechanism - it should go towards transit.

Congestion charges also sound good, but does it apply only to the person from Mississauga driving to Toronto, or also the person going from Toronto to Mississauga?

The trouble with the gas tax is that it currently becomes general revenue for the province or federal governments.

There is a 10¢ Federal Excise Tax (general revenue), 14.7¢ Provincial Gasoline Tax (general revenue), plus the HST (general revenue). The Gasoline Tax rates for Ontario last changed on January 1, 1992.

 

[BurlOak]

The trouble with the gas tax is that it currently becomes general revenue for the province or federal governments.

There is a 10¢ Federal Excise Tax (general revenue), 14.7¢ Provincial Gasoline Tax (general revenue), plus the GST (general revenue). The Gasoline Tax rates for Ontario last changed on January 1, 1992.

I recall about 20 years ago when they brought in fishing licenses, they said all the money would go to stocking and research.

Subqequantly, they cut the original funding for these programs - so at the end of the day, no new money went to fish.

Gas Tax probably could be done if people would trust politicians to apply the funding to where it was promised.

 

[gweed123]

I am not a great fan of road tolls, the others I like more. One option is to discourage long distnace comutes by just applying tax to gas - this hit those who drive far more, and also those with inefficient vehicles more. Tolling only 400 series highway punished people based on geography. Why is someone driving in on 400 so much worse that someone commuting in on Dufferin. We shold be encouraging people to drive on highways and not on the more local roads.

Maybe with GPS tolling, you could come up with something better, but I do not want all the tolling revenue to go towards a toll collection mechanism - it should go towards transit.

Congestion charges also sound good, but does it apply only to the person from Mississauga driving to Toronto, or also the person going from Toronto to Mississauga?

I think that for short trips people may choose to use local streets, but for long haul commuters, taking surface streets wouldn't be worth it.

I also favour peak-period only tolls on some routes. Or if the tolls are applied off-peak, that they be negligible (10¢/km or something like that).

 

[andrewpmk]

If highways are tolled then people will use local roads to avoid them. Look at Highway 7 which is congested all day long due to high tolls on the 407.

Also 10 cents per km in off peak hours is quite high. To ensure fairness we should only charge tolls during times where there is significant congestion right now - i.e. on most roads tolls would apply in rush hour, and roads would be free outside rush hour. Tolls should be set at whatever price is required to get free flow traffic, and at times of day when demand is below the capacity of the road when P=0, the road would be free.

High tolls during off peak times dump traffic onto parallel free roads. The tolls on 407 off peak are high and are set to maximize profit for the 407 operators which means that the 407 is being used far below capacity during off peak times dumping traffic onto Highway 7 and 401.

 

[sixrings]

the 401 has a luxury of a expressway which could be converted to tolls... so you could still take the highway but it probably would be a bit busier. the 427 could also be configures that there is toll lanes vs regular lanes... as for the dvp and the qew that to me should be all tolled.

im ok with gps toll as well. this could allow tolls of a premium level on highways vs regular roads.

 

[Palma]

Two great articles here, one by James at the Star, and the other reporting on some surprising support for road tolls:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ob-ford-made-our-transit-dreams-possible?bn=1

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1165636--car-commuters-would-pay-for-relief-poll

I think that we need to start pushing for this, because these revenue sources are needed sooner than later. And if we can direct the revenue from these funding sources to the DRL or to GO expansion, it would be even better. I think the days of the Province funding transit expansion exclusively from Provincial coffers are over.

Rob Ford continues to say he is against tolls and states he is the most fiscally responsible with tax payers money. Will this be another vote he looses in council?

 

[Electrify]

I was at a public forum and panel discussion about how to best fund transit expansion in the GTA (http://urbanneighbourhoods.wordpress.com/). Unfortunately I was unable to stay through all of it, but the key ideas mentioned while I was there were region-wide commercial parking fees, regional sales tax, vehicle registration, gas tax, and tolls. Of the ideas floated, I think the regional sales tax is the best option. The parking idea I think could work if used in core areas which have good transit support, but to charge $1/per day/per spot on an industrial office complex in Caledon becomes nothing more than a cash grab.

Vehicle registration was not a bad idea either, the way it would be executed at least. If done, it would be region wide, which would make it more difficult to simply "cross the border" in order to escape it, as was the case with Toronto's implementation. Another modification they would do is that smaller and more fuel efficient cars (like mine ) would pay significantly less than those which are large and wasteful.

An idea I've thought of which could work could be an extra 10 cent fee on top of transit fares, which goes directly to transit expansion infrastructure. Those with lower incomes could get the money back come tax time, and Presto could make it easy to keep track and record this information. Best of all, it could relieve some tension from drivers which feel they are being taxes extra to support public transit while transit riders get a free ride, thus making auto taxes more palatable.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was at a public forum and panel discussion about how to best fund transit expansion in the GTA (http://urbanneighbourhoods.wordpress.com/). Unfortunately I was unable to stay through all of it, but the key ideas mentioned while I was there were region-wide commercial parking fees, regional sales tax, vehicle registration, gas tax, and tolls. Of the ideas floated, I think the regional sales tax is the best option. The parking idea I think could work if used in core areas which have good transit support, but to charge $1/per day/per spot on an industrial office complex in Caledon becomes nothing more than a cash grab.

Vehicle registration was not a bad idea either, the way it would be executed at least. If done, it would be region wide, which would make it more difficult to simply "cross the border" in order to escape it, as was the case with Toronto's implementation. Another modification they would do is that smaller and more fuel efficient cars (like mine ) would pay significantly less than those which are large and wasteful.

An idea I've thought of which could work could be an extra 10 cent fee on top of transit fares, which goes directly to transit expansion infrastructure. Those with lower incomes could get the money back come tax time, and Presto could make it easy to keep track and record this information. Best of all, it could relieve some tension from drivers which feel they are being taxes extra to support public transit while transit riders get a free ride, thus making auto taxes more palatable.

Of course, if the province just doubled their registration fees for GTA or Southern Ontario (currently $74 for Southern Ontario and $37 for Northern Ontario), they can direct those funds towards transit. However, I can see some later government diverting the funds for a temporary "emergency" situation.

 

[Palma]

If highways are tolled then people will use local roads to avoid them. Look at Highway 7 which is congested all day long due to high tolls on the 407.

A.

And your saying HIGHWAY 7 is a local road and not a HIGWAY?

 

[nfitz]

And your saying HIGHWAY 7 is a local road and not a HIGWAY?

In Richmond Hill? It's just an arterial road like Major MacKenzie. Hasn't been a provincial highway for years. Of course any little crescent or sidestreet is a highway under the highway code.

 

[calimehtar]

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...-praise-for-urging-new-taxes-to-ease-gridlock

Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion deserves praise for urging new taxes to ease gridlock

Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion didn’t become one of Canada’s longest-serving and most popular municipal leaders by being a tax-and-spend squanderer of public funds. So when she says a crisis looms and we’ll have to reach into our wallets to deal with it, people should pay attention.

In a refreshing departure from the wilful blindness exhibited by some civic leaders (Mayor Rob Ford, take a bow), McCallion unabashedly called for new taxes to ease gridlock choking traffic flow — and the economy — in the Greater Toronto Area.

“Income tax, sales tax, (vehicle) registration tax . . . I have no preference,†she told reporters last week. “I just know we need it, and we need it quickly. We’ve got to get a handle on congestion.â€

She carried that message to Queen’s Park, meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty, but it isn’t yet certain if the government will listen.

Metrolinx, the province’s regional transportation authority, has developed a credible long-range plan to keep traffic and public transit moving throughout the GTA. But it requires at least $50 billion. Queen’s Park has committed to covering less than a quarter of that, and it’s not clear where the rest of this money will be found.

Metrolinx is expected to produce a detailed funding strategy as early as this fall. And, given the billions necessary for what needs to be done, the public will be asked to pay — one way or another. Of course, people will bristle. They’re understandably reluctant to hand more of their hard-earned dollars to government.

That’s why it’s so important to hear respected leaders like McCallion emphasizing that there’s no free ride. Traffic already slows to a crawl for much of each day on key routes serving the GTA. And with a million additional vehicles expected on the region’s highways over the next 20 years, a serious investment must be made to avoid utter standstill.

McCallion’s preferred solution is some kind of tax increase. Fair enough. Others, including the Star, have highlighted road tolls. These raise money but also ease congestion by encouraging people to leave their cars at home and use public transit.

In addition to tolls and assorted taxes, funds could be generated through a levy on non-residential parking spaces, “congestion pricing†(which imposes a fee to access certain parts of a city), a hydro levy and express lane charges.

All these, and more, have been discussed as part of a possible strategy to cope with our congestion crisis. Indeed, it’s unlikely that any one approach could generate all the required billions. A carefully balanced mix of new fees and taxes across the GTA seems in order.

McCallion deserves praise for boldly saying what the public needs to hear — we’ll all have to pay more, and soon, to avoid intolerable gridlock. It would help if politicians at every level of government quit wallowing in denial and admitted that fundamental truth.

 

[gweed123]

If it's anything other than a VRT or tolls specifically on the Gardiner & DVP, it needs to be administered region-wide.

Every city is growing right now, and if taxes like an extra income tax or a sales tax are administered at the local level, it's just going to reduce growth in that area and increase it by a corresponding amount in an area that doesn't have those taxes.

If it's region-wide, it doesn't become a factor in choosing a place to live in the GTA, because it's standard across the board.

 

[valkoholic]

My God, Hazel should be prohibitted by law from complaining about congestion.

Don't give her too much credit. She's a wise (if hyprocritical) woman. She knows somethings coming funding-wise and wants to be sure her suburb pays the lowest possible share. Watch for her to be for a sales tax but against road tolls.