New Transit Funding Sources

[Tulse]

I thought people would be pleased that we're looking at new sources of funding for transit.

Sure, but it wouldn't be much:

"Host municipalities for OLG Casinos and Slots at Racetracks receive five per cent of slot machine revenues from the first 450 machines, and two per cent from each additional machine."

OLG paid out a total of $111 million to its 22 municipal partners in 2010, or an average of $5 million per site. You can't build a subway on $5 million. (You may object that Toronto would average more, but even Woodbine only gave back $15 million to the city, and a new casino would likely cannibalize some of that revenue.)

And forget putting in a fancy Fallsview-like "Resort Casino", as those actually lost money for OLG in 2009 and 2010.

This kind of research isn't hard to do -- it took me 3 minutes on the web.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Another idiot backs Ford's subway plan while offering absolutely no solution to pay for it. This time it's Tim Hudak, reaffirming the view of most Torontonians that he has no clue and no regard for their city.

""We should do it right, we should build subways. We should build underground, not rip up existing streets,” said Hudak, acknowledging that he wouldn’t increase the $8.4 billion commitment the province has already made to Toronto transit."

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...ses-no-new-taxes-to-help-fund-sheppard-subway

By the way, Tim Hudak was talking about building a subway along FINCH, which apparently he wants done with absolutely no provincial money, since he wants all of that used to bury all of the Eglinton LRT.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Someone should remind him of his involvement with the government that canned Eglinton subway, and that was a time when Ontario doesn't have a 16B budget deficit. Clearly, another little prince has no clothes.

Oh look, a new highway as a way to pay for subways?

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...o-new-taxes-to-help-fund-sheppard-subway?bn=1

CC:

We'll be pleased when someone come up with a plan that doesn't require the city to commit ALL development charges from the ENTIRE city for 50 YEARS in order to build a subway that's several rungs down the priority list - and you would say is "fiscally responsible"?

AoD

 

[Silence&Motion]

Another crazy idea from the Ford camp: a new highway built across Toronto! How will we pay for it? Who knows? Where will we put it? Not sure! All Doug Ford knows is that it will (1) allow him to "whiz downtown from Etobicoke rather than be stuck in Gardiner gridlock", and (2) raise enough money to build a subway by charging $3 a car.

This is all turning out to be some kind of weird bait and switch where all the conservatives keep promising this magnificent web of environmentally friendly public subway lines sprawling to every end of the city, and in all of the confusion we somehow end up with the rebirth of the Spadina expressway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The ideas are getting increasingly outlandish - the whole mess is turning into a sick joke without a single shred of credibility

AoD

 

[TFC]

I'm hoping that we'll see a shift in the political system, and the way in which it's structured. How people like Doug Ford and Giorgio Mammolitti are making transportation decisions which will very dramatically alter the way the city works is frightening and in my opinion, unacceptable. Council members have 0 knowledge on transit, yet weild the power to decide what gets done. And now Tim Hudak of all people is pushing for a subway, on FINCH..

Will it be possible to allow people with knowledge on the subject of transportation, such as engineers and planners, to have a stronger voice when it comes to deciding what gets built, and what gets put on the backburner?

 

[Voltz]

I caught a bit of Ford on the John Tory show this afternoon, he made it more than clear that he does not not support any new tolls taxes ect, he claim that Stintz will support extending Sheppard to VP with existing funding, then he rambled on about the St Clair disaster,

surprisingly enough he did admit that he is only one vote on council........ can someone put a call in to hell and check what the temperature is?

 

[BurlOak]

Someone should remind him of his involvement with the government that canned Eglinton subway, and that was a time when Ontario doesn't have a 16B budget deficit.

Just a point of correction.

The Conservatives inherited a $11B deficit in 1995. A value larger than today’s $18B deficit – if inflation is accounted for.

Also, in 1995, the Federal government was deeply cutting transfers to Provinces, whereas the past 7 or 8 years have seen transfers increased substantially.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

BurlOak:

Actually, according to BoC CPI, 11B in 95 would come to about 15B in 2012, and I believe under the same timeframe there is quite a bit of downloading from the province to municipalities, no? Plus, the current government committed to the funds even in arguable worse economic environment - said government didn't.

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

BurlOak:

Actually, according to BoC CPI, 11B in 95 would come to about 15B in 2012, and I believe under the same timeframe there is quite a bit of downloading from the province to municipalities, no? Plus, the current government committed to the funds even in arguable worse economic environment - said government didn't.

AoD

Sorry. You are correct on the $15B. I thought inflation was more than 2% over that period.

I do not know the magnitude of the downloads from the Province to the Municipalities in the 1990's - I am not denying that it did not occur. But I also do not know how much of the federal transfers to the Provinces from the 2000's were sent through to the Muncipalities.

There is also the fact that the deficit in 1995 was created by the previous government and the current deficit occurred under the current government.

 

[Palma]

Another idiot backs Ford's subway plan while offering absolutely no solution to pay for it. This time it's Tim Hudak, reaffirming the view of most Torontonians that he has no clue and no regard for their city.

""We should do it right, we should build subways. We should build underground, not rip up existing streets,” said Hudak, acknowledging that he wouldn’t increase the $8.4 billion commitment the province has already made to Toronto transit."

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...ses-no-new-taxes-to-help-fund-sheppard-subway

By the way, Tim Hudak was talking about building a subway along FINCH, which apparently he wants done with absolutely no provincial money, since he wants all of that used to bury all of the Eglinton LRT.

So building subways does not rip up streets? Tonight on Rogers tv there was Smelly Carroll and Joe Mihevc talking about transit. Very informative. Like Shelly said to the view that building underground does not rip up streets - go to Finch and keele and take a look. And the street is ripped up way longer with subways So how does this notion that underground does not rip up street come fro?. Its not like they build subways from underground. And misinformed people keep repeating the same thing.

The arguments they are expensive to maintain - LRT that is. Joe Mihevc says there is maintenance with subways and it costs more per km than surface LRT. They mentioned an LRT line in I thinks it was Australia that has been in operation for over 100 years and a train that still runs. It’s all about maintenance. And as they said Ford says one thing Mon-Wed-Fri and something else Tues-Thur. He says developers think its great and he leads us to believe that they will contribute money and then turns around and talks about casino and lotteries. The show repeats again tomorrow morning at 11am

The Fords call LRT fancy streetcars (when they are at surface) yet someone putting these fancy streetcars underground turns them into subways for them

 

[Palma]

Another idiot backs Ford's subway plan while offering absolutely no solution to pay for it. This time it's Tim Hudak, reaffirming the view of most Torontonians that he has no clue and no regard for their city.

""We should do it right, we should build subways. We should build underground, not rip up existing streets,†said Hudak, acknowledging that he wouldn’t increase the $8.4 billion commitment the province has already made to Toronto transit."

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...ses-no-new-taxes-to-help-fund-sheppard-subway

By the way, Tim Hudak was talking about building a subway along FINCH, which apparently he wants done with absolutely no provincial money, since he wants all of that used to bury all of the Eglinton LRT.

What a moron Mammoliti is. I am quoting here "Mammoliti said his Finch-area constituents want a subway, and they’re willing to wait up to 50 years rather than accept surface rail." Who is going to wait 50 years. He does not speak for those residents. And how he plays up to Ford by saying to give the 1b earmarked for Finch to Sheppatd and that Finch can wait. The residenst of his ward should dunp him in the next election. I can;t wait to see how tries to explain wanting to give away 1B earmarked for Finch in the next election.

 

[valkoholic]

I'm hoping that we'll see a shift in the political system, and the way in which it's structured. How people like Doug Ford and Giorgio Mammolitti are making transportation decisions which will very dramatically alter the way the city works is frightening and in my opinion, unacceptable. Council members have 0 knowledge on transit, yet weild the power to decide what gets done. And now Tim Hudak of all people is pushing for a subway, on FINCH..

Will it be possible to allow people with knowledge on the subject of transportation, such as engineers and planners, to have a stronger voice when it comes to deciding what gets built, and what gets put on the backburner?

I agree completely about getting politicians out of the transportation planning process. I had high hopes for Metrolinx being able to take charge of this process, but they've shown themselves to be a very weak organization. This isn't a new issue (Transit City wasn't a great plan either and it almost got built). It's too bad.

Part of me wonders when the last major, successful, logical transportation project was built in Toronto. 1975 maybe (the expansion of the Yonge subway).

 

[rm20010]

Speaking of Hudak:
http://torontoist.com/2012/03/queens-park-watch-provincial-pols-pick-sides-in-transit-wars/

In conjunction with the BIA rethink on light rail, Team Hudak issued a press release today opining that “truly world class cities build underground,”—no doubt causing considerable heartache in newly-demoted metropoli like Berlin and Shanghai, which have invested heavily in LRT technology. He also said he would table an Opposition Day Motion on March 6, calling on the government to back Ford Nation’s call for subways. (Funnily, he told reporters today he didn’t think the province should add any more cash to the pool of money they’ve already committed to Toronto transit.)

For each passing day since last October, I'm reassured and relieved the province didn't elect this blithering (rural) moron into the premier's office.

 

[nfitz]

"All taxes are evil" -- Doug Ford.

So are you Doug ... so are you.