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New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities&quo

Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

Dismissing people as 'suburban blowhards' is hardly about "accepting" and 'moving on'...

Maybe, but if you read through his post it's quite clear that wasn't the tone he took with them...it came about after years of frustration.

If they display the level of ignorance he described, his description may not be too far off either...
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

SD2 - Two wrongs don't make a right. Be the bigger person and move on, secure in one's own opinion.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

SD2 - Two wrongs don't make a right. Be the bigger person and move on, secure in one's own opinion.


In the "Post: NY group flunks Toronto's waterfront" being secure in our opinion had us labelled irrational city boosters - it seems like a Torontonian discussing Toronto is a lose-lose situation unless you're willing to engage in constant negativity.

In fairness to Arch., he didn't say all suburbanites were like this...I suspect he was referring to the specific "blowhards" that he had trouble with.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

I lived in Montreal for almost 10 years and it didn't take long to realize every time you told someone you were from Toronto, you were going to get a reaction and it was almost always bad. lol I heard the stupidest, crazy shit about Toronto

Sadly, I have had similar types of experiences. I grew up in Montreal, and when I go back to visit I still hear stories about how bad Toronto is in this or that, or how it is a city filled with workaholics. It is by no means a universal sentiment, but noticeable.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

SD2: I do not view the meanspirited criticism of the 'blowhard' as analagous to the intended constructive criticism given of the waterfront.

"it seems like a Torontonian discussing Toronto is a lose-lose situation unless you're willing to engage in constant negativity"

By the same token anybody who criticises or points to somewhere else that is doing something well, is dismissed as hating Toronto or being a "fill in the gap with the city of your choice"-wannabe.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

By the same token anybody who criticises or points to somewhere else that is doing something well, is dismissed as hating Toronto or being a "fill in the gap with the city of your choice"-wannabe.

When have I ever done that?

And how often is that seen on the site overall? Not very much.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

I fell out of this thread for a while and so I'd like to reassure you all that tudararms is in his essence correct, after a while I became nasty. Oh, yes, there were several months of self-deprecating comments and excessive, if genuinely meant, compliments towards my host city. Having spent months without even a few kindnesses being returned (and I agree totally that Winnipeg is the exception to the general resentment, which is one of the reasons I have a soft spot for the Peg) I suppose I just gave up and decided to take my fun another way.

My favourite line, which I've quoted here before, and which came to me quite spontaneously on a patio party in Vancouver, was in response to a Vancouverite's typical encouragement (mixed with her complete hatred of Toronto) to voice my appreciation for its rugged setting. I responded that "We had mountains in Ontario long before you did and we got over them!". I shall fondly remember the look on her face when that came out.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

I find that hostility toward Toronto from other Canadians is free-flowing and usually unsolicited...what I can't believe, though, is how many such individuals have never actually been there.

Resentment of a country's principal city happens in lots of places...but I don't think that French feelings toward Paris or Brits' toward London are anywhere near as pathologically and resentfully hostile.

Might be because Toronto-hating combines both centre-periphery tensions along with regional ones at the same time--for example, English-French and West-East. This can only compound the relatively normal (ie internationally common) hostility of people in hinterland areas in general toward the economic and cultural capital, which you see plenty of toward T-O.

I guess our position in this regard is most analagous to that of New York v. the rest of the States, although NY's global cultural impact, which makes it familiar to and to an extent revered by people all over the US and the world dull the edge of it a bit in the States.

But still, why can't we all just get along? I hope that one day Canadians everywhere will realise that the worth of their own lifestyle is not diminished by liking Toronto, nor improved by putting it down...for example, hopefully one day Montrealers will cease to be terrified that, by admitting that TO is not necessarily ugly, prude, and cultureless their city will somehow lose all of its virtues.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

Just remember, the generalisations about everyone hating Toronto are as inaccurate as the generalisations about Toronto being a crappy city full of snooty, stuck up, boring people. Although I have encountered hostility towards Toronto in other parts of the country, it seems to be more the exception rather than the rule in my experience. Maybe they were just trying to be polite.

There is also the issue of general hostility towards Ontario, which is a separate matter, but which also makes Toronto's situation worse. It'll be interesting to see how this evolves as Ontario's population eventually becomes 50% of the country's.

Yes, Vancouverites tend to fish for compliments, but so do Torontonians. And yes, some Montrealers believe their city is vastly superior to Toronto, but the vice versa is also true. And if Sloan can happily move to Toronto from Halifax, there is hope for Maritimers as well. In fact, I met a fellow in a coin shop in Halifax who said that all Nova Scotians should get up each morning and bow down in Ontario's direction and count their lucky stars that they have this rich province subsidising their existence. That was a bit surprising.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

Your point about Ontario is very important, I think...just one more level of Canadian regionalism, I suppose.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

gang - I suppose some of what you say is true. I certainly do find that Winnipegers don't seem to have a chip on their shoulders, and to be fair to Montreal, I've had a number of experiences where they have gone on and on about how much they like Toronto, so some of my experiences are positive.

As for me, I generally do feel positively to most Canadian cities so I am usually able to say something good, and focus on that. If pushed, though, I push back.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

Archivist: You're only human! It's hard to always have to overlook somebody else's bad behaviour.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

To add fuel to the fire, here is an article from the current issue of Canadian Architect:

Downtown's Last Resort

A Critique of the Last 20 Years of Vancouver's Approach to Downtown Living Asks Some Difficult Questions About Where the Future Lies for Canada's Ocean Playground.

Text Trevor Boddy


That downtown Vancouver is home to one of the grandest experiments in Canadian urbanism is now beyond question. No city in this country--not Toronto when it lined Bay Street with banking towers, not Montreal in its pre-EXPO optimism, not even Calgary during its last oil boom--has remade its core so radically, in so short a time. Whether this experiment will prove a long-term success is very much in question.

While the planners, developers and politicians most closely associated with the city-transforming 1991 Downtown Plan have been quick to sing their own praises, and a compliant Vancouver and national press have generally sung along to the same tune, there are now growing worries about the fate of the glittering glass and concrete downtown it has produced. In over two decades, the downtown's population has doubled to nearly 100,000 residents. But over the same period, only nominal residential growth has been seen in the adjacent West End and nearly all other Vancouver neighbourhoods. Our politicians are loathe to extend the densification they trumpet so loudly in the downtown to the areas that need it most.

Ninety percent of the nine million square feet of new towers approved in downtown during this decade have been condos. Downtown is heading towards a fate as a dormitory suburb (transit ridership projections have more people leaving the core than coming in each morning, and downtown traffic levels and commute times have been reduced) while new employment continues to locate in suburban fringes ill-served by transit. Rising suburb-to- suburb traffic levels prompted the provincial government under Gordon Campbell to undertake its current binge of bridge-building and perimeter highway construction, foolishly replicating the energy-wasting urban form of nearby Seattle, and other American cities, and contradicting the radial nature of our mass transit system serving downtown jobs and retail.

The stark reality is that one-third of Vancouver's head-office jobs left the city during the past six years, whereas Calgary has seen an increase of 64 percent. Never much of a head-office town, the bias of Vancouver planners towards condos means that it may soon not be a town for offices at all. First, eight million square feet of potential office space in the former downtown service area of Downtown South was re-zoned "housing optional." This area is now nearly completely developed--as condos and condos alone. Next to go "condo" were the heritage buildings in Yaletown and Gastown that once hosted design, media and software companies. Developers then turned towards office tower sites in the commercial core of the "Golden Triangle" bounded by Georgia and Granville Streets and Coal Harbour. Given the promotion of housing over all other uses by Vancouver planners, you can hardly blame developers: Westbank Corporation's Ian Gillespie estimates economic return for condos in Vancouver is now five times that of new office buildings, the highest such skew in any North American city. Land brokers confirm that downtown land has not been priced for office use for at least five years, but Vancouver is only now having a public debate about downtown's future.

A revealing example is the fate of Rhone and Iredale's 1969 West Coast Transmission Tower on Georgia Street, recipient of many engineering awards for its Bogue Babicki and Associates-designed cable-hung forms, converted recently into condos and renamed "The Qube." Many more of downtown's dwindling stock of towers would have met the same fate, had City Council not slapped a moratorium on such conversions last year. Although hard to grasp for many planners--especially Americans or Canadians in slow-growth cities--too much housing may be killing peninsular downtown Vancouver, especially the mono-form, mono-class, crank-the-handle towers of recent years.

West Coast architects have long groused about the top-down imposition of housing typologies, the arbitrariness of discretionary approvals, and the continuing postmodernist stylistic bias of Vancouver's senior planners. Bing Thom was one of the first to publicly decry the shift to a downtown future as a "resort," not a true metropolis. At the recent World Planners Congress here, he went on to call too many of our condo towers "vertical gated communities," noting that street life is not what one would expect at North America's highest residential densities, especially in the toniest of these new zones, Bayshore and Coal Harbour. After touring Vancouver for three days for "A Dialogue of Cities,"--an international symposium discussing urban trends here and globally--eight architecture critics from five continents came to much the same conclusion. However, Vancouver's recently departed co-director of planning Larry Beasley defends the suburban values of predictability, cleanliness and lack of architectural variety in the high-rise zones shaped by his "Living First" strategy, arguing that a key motor of Vancouver's downtown success is making itself attractive to those who grew up in urban fringes.

Then there are questions about the nature of these new downtown residents. Planners portray them as mountain-biking software and computer game developers, walk-to-work denizens of the postmodern economy--but there is just as much contrary evidence that many of the new residents are a golden global class temporarily parking their investment dollars, linked with a huge cohort of Canadian baby boomers planning to spend their final years in Vancouver, shaping a Penticton with point towers. Estimates are that one-quarter of downtown purchasers are international speculative investors and another quarter are Canadian non-residents who rent out their apartments, Vancouver's only new source of rental housing in a decade. These mainly young renters give downtown its current air of diversity. But soon after the arthritis kicks in for their greying landlords, these cultural creatives will get booted out. Even worse, the social diversity that was a hallmark of False Creek South is proving difficult to duplicate downtown, and not just because of the loss of federal social-housing subsidies. Perhaps the most damning indictment of Vancouver's planners is their policy-driven intensification of the Downtown Eastside's shameful slum. Like Rio de Janeiro--Vancouver's only rival for the world's most beautiful setting--they have condoned a high- density favela for drug dealers and the indigent beside a glamourous beach-ringed high-rise zone that is home to the middle class and the wealthy.

Nearby, the first phase of the Southeast False Creek development--home to the 2010 Olympics Athletes' Village--was bought last spring at double the highest previous price ever paid for downtown land. Its developers were eyeing the international and not the local market for the new global commodities: condos in resort towns. I predict it will not be long until condos in what I call the "Portal Cities"--Vancouver, Dubai, Hong Kong, Panama City and Miami--are traded on stock exchanges like commodities. Leading this trend is the extremely influential and political condo super-marketer Bob Rennie-topping Vancouver magazine's 2005 list of most influential Vancouverites. As a society we may come to regret a scene in which 15 percent of the cost of new housing goes to marketing, but only five percent goes to all design fees. With the exception of a token condo tower by Arthur Erickson for Concord Pacific, Vancouver's finest architects are largely conspicuous by their absence in the downtown boom.

What is happening in downtown Vancouver is unprecedented in North America--a diverse downtown, in times of wealth and growth, changing itself into a residential area. Detroit emptied itself out, but planners have had to come up with the awkward language of "de-downtownification" to describe Vancouver's manic turn to condos over downtown jobs. Toronto and other Canadian cities have relocated downtown functions as they have evolved, but as a peninsula surrounded by water and Stanley Park, Vancouver has no such geographic option. The nearly three million people of the Lower Mainland may be losing their opportunity to join the ranks of the great world cities--I have little confidence that Richmond, Burnaby or Vancouver's off-peninsula inner ring will ever achieve metropolitan density.

To an astonishing degree, the changes in downtown Vancouver are tied to the fads and fancies of architectural, economic and cultural theory over the past few decades. Postmodernism--in its stylistic, socio-economic and cultural modalities--is the idea-set which has produced downtown Vancouver as resort. The easiest visual clue to this is the plannerly bias towards ersatz historic references for new buildings and streetscapes. The1991 plan and its updates promoted Art Deco roofs and "Chateau Chapeaux" as caps on condo towers, while city urban designers mandated a pale imitation of Bath's Royal Crescent for the foot of Richards Street.

More worrisome than this is the glib promotion of postmodern urbanism and economics by our city builders, validating lifestyle before the creation of wealth, pumping the visual markers of the "Creative City" over the more difficult and important investments in affordable housing and cultural institutions that would actually make a creative city happen. At a recent RAIC panel on urbanism, Calgary architect Marc Boutin described the new downtown Vancouverites as totally immersed in this promotional oversell, lost souls trying to find themselves through the self-congratulatory latte-and-rollerblade lifestyle they have bought into. This all started with Stanley Kwok's urban design for the first phase of Concord Pacific in the late 1980s. Kwok says its small-plate tall towers were dually inspired by Hong Kong's residential towers and tropical resorts like Waikiki--a cruelly apt choice!

Led by Las Vegas-born and -educated Larry Beasley, downtown planners were surprised by the relatively easy reception higher-density housing was receiving in Vancouver, as long as it was accompanied by significant public benefits. The resulting 1991 Downtown Plan is the Magna Carta of Vancouverism, the document proposing an urban design philosophy, an accompanying architectural typology, plus a massive re-zoning to transform much of the downtown peninsula into a residential zone. Discretionary approvals tightly controlled by senior planners--usually through social-bonus zoning--traded density for sometimes questionable public benefits, including mini-parks, historic building preservation, public art, construction of community facilities, contribution to a social housing fund, day-care provision, and so on.

The Vancouver high-density housing typology of small-plate high-rise on continuous townhouse base was codified at this time. A truly postmodern hybrid, the Vancouverist typology is deeply revealing of the planners and developers who concocted it, its form being a conflation of Hong Kong towers with New York brownstones. The argument was that the townhouses would serve families, but high prices mean that few with small children can afford them, and they are just as likely to be filled with empty-nesters. Beasley has long associated himself with the Congress for the New Urbanism, and engaged founder Andrés Duany for some key urban design work in South Vanvouver's East Fraserlands. Conversely, the New Urbanists have taken to claiming Vancouverism's Hong Kong-New York hybrid as the highest-density option for their own visual lexicon of urban forms. Despite this mutual admiration, even the schematic genealogy offered here indicates that Vancouverism has nothing to do with New Urbanism.

In its inception and initial implementation, Vancouver's 1991 Downtown Plan is one of North America's most visionary and inspired plans, on par with New York City's Zoning Resolution first passed in 1916 (substantially revised in 1961), and San Francisco's downtown initiatives under Alan Jacobs. What is currently Vancouver's problem, and may soon become the Lower Mainland's urban calamity is that these plans were not adjusted to changing conditions and realities. With the wholesale transformation of the city, what was necessary and inspired in 1991 had become ill-advised and outdated by 2001. As often is the pattern for large-scale shifts of planning policy, Vancouver's development industry resisted the principles of the plan for the first years, then came around to become its strongest supporters with the condo boom this decade.

Much of this accommodation to the development industry was accomplished through a lowering of Vancouver's already-low architectural standards. For example, the corner of Richards and Nelson Streets in Downtown South represents a particularly bleak concentration of the Beasley-era architecture of Vancouverism. First came Bosa Development's two-tower, voluted and otherwise postmodernized half-block complex, which received the unlikely name of the Mondrian because its height was bonused through inclusion of new art exhibition spaces for the Contemporary Art Gallery. With the ghosts of Dutch Constructivists quaking in their graves, the crudely banal Miro was built across the street, followed by the Gallery kitty corner. Linked by their almost complete absence of architectural art, the "Three Gracelesses" of the Mondrian, the Miro and the Gallery give permanent witness to the lack of striving for architectural excellence by typology-obsessed planners--while developers ironically accrued social status through Vancouver's art world, and not through the art of city-making.

Similarly, Vancouver's policy regarding the "View Cone"--an emphasis on views to the mountaintops from a dozen public spaces pales in comparison with what was really needed--the protection of views to the harbour along streets and stewardship of Vancouver's most important public space, False Creek. The ocean inlet has become a parking lot for 1,280 seldom-used yachts, and this transformation of False Creek into one big marina is an obvious cue about the new Vancouver few dare mention: our locking into a future as a resort for the wealthy and the aged. The cultural creatives our planners and developers love to boast about are crawling away from Terminal City, priced out and themed out by a converging city planning and urban development ethos that has traded away long-term urbanity to get short-term rewards.

Vancouver will survive indignities and lost opportunities even as enormous as those inventoried here. If we improve its architecture and shape its downtown into a place to work as well as live, Vancouver will resume its natural position as Canada's only chance at a world city. Montreal's mayor may call in UNESCO contacts to name itself, somewhat pompously, one of three "World Design Cities," and Toronto will be a long time admitting that its turn to "starchitects" over the past decade has resulted in a string of buildings that will only cement its decline from national metropole into a provincial striver. Whatever its failings, especially recently, Vancouverism has entered the argot of planners and architects worldwide--a status no other Canadian city developing planning ideas has ever known.

Vancouver will succeed--despite its resolutely lame mass media, the rewarding of its architectural bottom-feeders, its unsettling convergence of developers' and planners' pretensions--because of the depth of passion many of us invest in it. We have let the rhetoric of real estate supplant the craft and consciousness of city building, and a sharp recession is what will soon set things right. The bones of a great city are coming into place, and now we need time and public wisdom to put some flesh on it. Love-hate relationships are always signs of a love frustrated, and Vancouver is now ours to make or break.

Architecture critic Trevor Boddy (trevboddy@hotmail.com) is winner of the Alberta Book of the Year and Jack Webster Journalism prize for his writing on cities and buildings, and has taught architecture and urban design across Canada and around the world.
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If we improve its architecture and shape its downtown into a place to work as well as live, Vancouver will resume its natural position as Canada's only chance at a world city. Montreal's mayor may call in UNESCO contacts to name itself, somewhat pompously, one of three "World Design Cities," and Toronto will be a long time admitting that its turn to "starchitects" over the past decade has resulted in a string of buildings that will only cement its decline from national metropole into a provincial striver. Whatever its failings, especially recently, Vancouverism has entered the argot of planners and architects worldwide--a status no other Canadian city developing planning ideas has ever known.

Only "world city"?! I wonder what measure he is using...and we don't need Vancouverism for a downtown that has always been vibrant.

AoD
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

That was a fanscinating piece and thank you for posting it.

His incorrect generalizations about Toronto and Montreal only make me wonder about his generalizations about Vancouver.

Nevertheless, as aesthetically pleasing Vancouver is (and damn, its beautiful) I always sensed (during my visits) that the beauty is skin deep (very thin) and there is little of the depth and layers of a Toronto, New York, Chicago or Montreal. I am not sure that can all be blamed on the planners and architecture as I feel the fact that a portion of the blame can be attributed to the fact that its a young city that has had a very recent, and fast, boom. And I am not that sure it can be solved with a few more head offices.

But if you build a city of nothing but Cityplaces, you should not be surprised that you do not end up with variety, diversity and depth.
 
Re: New Toronto Brand: "City of Unlimited Possibilities

If Vancouver's our only chance at having a "world city", then this country's in deep trouble.

Silly comments, really, which reduce the credibility of the article. Having said that, Vancouver has come a long way in the last ten years and really won me over on my last visit. But as Alklay rightly said, it doesn't have the depth of Toronto or Montreal.
 

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