kEiThZ
Superstar
Oh I wasn't referring to their internal discussions. I am talking about what feedback they provide you. Can you commit to provide that outcome in a fully public and transparent manner?
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Moose Rail (National Capital Region)
- Thread starter SaugeenJunction
- Start date
Oh I wasn't referring to their internal discussions. I am talking about what feedback they provide you. Can you commit to provide that outcome in a fully public and transparent manner?
kEiThZ
Superstar
The CATS ruling doesn't in any way impact their rolling stock pick. The CATS ruling will either force Capital Railways (OC Transpo) to fix the tracks or it won't. The ruling won't give MOOSE access to the rail corridor. They still have to negotiate that with OC Transport. They also have to negotiate with VIA. And from what's posted here, you take a guess to how far along the negotiations are.
They need dispensation on their rolling stock too. Especially if they plan on mixing it up with VIA and OC Transpo. The idea that this can be based around "whatever optimizes demand for property near stations" is naive given that they face some major regulatory hurdles, aside from the fact that the owners of those tracks will be within their rights to insist on certain type of rolling stock being prohibited or allowed.
So I don't think they can tell you what rolling stock they plan on using until they've talked to OC Transpo, VIA Rail, TC and their investors for starters.
Read their white paper. I did. All 27 pages. And it's convinced me even more that this is a well intentioned idea that doesn't yet have a sound business case for the corridors they want to apply this to. Ironically, their model would have actually worked much better in Toronto, where population densities around GO stations can be easily densified. In Ottawa? They aren't even seeing enough densification around existing BRT stations. So I'm skeptical they can fund literally hundreds of millions in capex costs by relying solely on development around stations. Least of all in outlying areas where people move specifically to gain more space.
Allandale25
Senior Member
I wasn't asking what rolling stock you'd be using for the first five years although thanks for the answer. I was asking when you expect to shed more light on the type of rolling stock you'd be using. 2017? 2018? Or whenever you're ready to.
Good to know from another poster that it's not dependent on the future CTA decision.
Joseph Potvin
New Member
Good to hear. Specific suggestions for improvement are always welcome.
Correct. We have completed the "pre-feasibility study". And the "feasibility study" is now underway.
Except that the entire business design of Metrolinx would need to be replaced, and that is not likely. What I have suggested to Metrolinx execs is that the PPR would probably be viable for extension of service outside the GTA (e.g. London, Niagara Falls). Toronto's transit system has fundamentally changed business models before though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Railway_Company
Skepticism is good. MOOSE does not seek blind faith.
Of course not. Bus routes can change at any time.
PPR-based service to each train station will be defined in an enforceable contract, and tracks don't move easily.
Cobra
Senior Member
MOOSE is lame. Should be called something that relate to the NCR but more modern, less stereotypical
steveintoronto
Superstar
I suspect it will be retained for business purposes, and operated under a more savvy name determined by more attractive public relations/marketing factors.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
BRIGHTLINE (formerly known as "All Aboard Florida") comes to mind...
Joseph Potvin
New Member
Cobra
Senior Member
Don't believe what Hollywood is trying to make you believe.
Cobra Kai were the heroes and Daniel Larusso and the "demon sorceror" Miyagi were the villains
The Karate Kid: Daniel is the REAL Bully
Joseph Potvin
New Member
Well, the Swedes beat us to this one: "Trainy McTrainface: Swedish rail firm approves name following online poll: MTR Express allows name following public vote, saying news will bring joy to many – and ‘not just in Sweden"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...iny-mctrainface-as-newest-member-of-its-fleet
Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com
steveintoronto
Superstar
LOL! I saw that in various national press stories yesterday and prior. It's gone viral. Of course, it was predicated on Boaty McBoatface (which the UK Coast Guard, or whomever, promptly refused to use)(credit to the Swedes and MTR Express for not being too serious when it comes to dealing with the harmless whims of the public)
MTR Express (private enterprise) are doing something between what HFR and MOOSE are proposing, it is inter-city, but using Stadler FLIRTs, not Asltom LINTs, very similar stock, but getting back to 'second-hand double-decker coaches'...it looks like the pickings will be opportune shortly, with CalTrains moving ahead on electrification, and other operators in the US looking to replace theirs, some of them second-hand already from GO. VIA might be looking for same for the Halifax commuter operation.
As for names, being a conservative (in ways, lol) tech kinda guy, I like "Capital Region Rail" or "Capital Region Express".
Joseph Potvin
New Member
SteveInToronto, You of all participants on this blog well know that we're not a train business; we're a property value optimization business.
It is, and will remain: Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises | Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises.
Cobra
Senior Member
Maybe it's a generational thing. Just my opinion and observation but those stereotypical symbols and names have most Millenials rolling their eyes while older generation finds it either "cute" or a reminder of what makes them "Canadians". Those same symbols/name are a source of jokes being done to death to define Canadians internationally.
I like the concept/project of MOOSE, just not the name. By all mean, have an online consultation over it and whichever name comes on top so be it. Ottawa is clearly trying to change the perception that not only Canadians have of it but is also trying to grow as an international modern city. I don't know how "MOOSE" fits in.
I like the concept/project of MOOSE, just not the name. By all mean, have an online consultation over it and whichever name comes on top so be it. Ottawa is clearly trying to change the perception that not only Canadians have of it but is also trying to grow as an international modern city. I don't know how "MOOSE" fits in.
steveintoronto
Superstar
lol...then I up the steaks (sic): Moose Steaks on my part. You're an economist, and realize that you'll have to run the operation as its own business entity apart from Real Estate?
But let's move on, that's a trifling point. If you could come across a link or reference to O-Train's TC 'regulations'...I'd be grateful. (won't use the term 'chuffed' after Trainy McTrainface). I still think there's far more at play here than just MOOSE. My mention of MTR Express being "private" is indicative of where a lot of operations are headed, ironically in many European nations far more 'social' than Canada. (EU regs (deregulation) have a lot to do with that).
MOOSE heralds a return to *venture rail* that will be copied by others in Canada. Subsidiary to that point is that the largest railway equipment company in the world now (by far) is Chinese, and the capital is also there to export the product, the model, and the implementation of better rail.
This is something, as Cobra alludes to (pardon me for reading between the lines), as something this generation of Canadians aren't quite ready to grasp. A lot of the cynicism on MOOSE and HFR is inward gazing, rather than realizing what's possible, and what others are doing. Local publication stories are one thing. The Globe and Mail's was quite another, and associated stories in the Globe on the venture financing that's needed to continue building this nation, one that prides itself on "Free Trade". That has to work two ways....
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Joseph Potvin
New Member
You mean the O-Train's Certificate of Fitness? https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/745-r-2000
MOOSE was invited to a CUTA conference panel and a US workshop in Philadelphia in 2015, and separately, caught the attention of some European planners. ...Oh, and some global investors. It might all go "poof!", we'll see.
To hear some of the skeptics, though, you'd think we're planning a hyperloop between Vars and Punkydoodle's Corners. Around Canada's Capital, it seems entirely unfathomable to these folks that some wingnut wearing a stupid hat with fuzzy antlers would try to cut through embedded dysfunction to put conventional trains on existing tracks.
Trick question for skeptics on this list: What did Arthur C. Clark publish in 1945, long before he became known as a science fiction writer? Now there's a wingnut idea if I ever saw one.
(Signing off for a while... I've spent too much time on this and the Skyscraper blog today. Got a train company to build!!)
Joseph Potvin
Director General | Directeur général
Moose Consortium (Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems & Enterprises) | www.letsgomoose.com
Consortium Moose (Mobilité Outaouais-Ottawa: Systèmes & Enterprises) | www.onyvamoose.com