Montréal Transit Developments

[GraphicMatt]

Subways don't run in the middle of the street stopping at traffic lights.

I don't think the *underground* section of Eglinton will encounter traffic lights! Or run in the middle of the street. Unless there's a subterranean roadway I'm not aware of.

 

[allabootmatt]

Interesting that all of Montreal's proposed extensions are at the outer ends of the network--the one mooted inner-city project, the Yellow western extension, is nowhere to be seen. And as noted earlier, Montreal's biggest need--for a new north-south line (probably Pie-IX) to relieve the Orange is nowhere.

So let's not get too jealous.

 

[Disparishun]

Not sure whether you should read into this any further, but it seems like English parts of the city are woefully underserviced: Mile End, NDG and the urban strip of Westmount along Sherbrooke are a good hike from metro stations and the frequency of bus services in Montreal frankly sucks.

The metro expansion proposal is just that -- a proposal that three mayors hope to submit to Quebec City to ask for funding.

But, if it goes through as planned -- well, Mile End has really good bus service (doubt the tremendous cost of expanding the metro there through the mountain would be worth it), for NDG see Villa Maria, Vendome, and the Montreal West commuter station, and Westmount didn't want no stinking metro. Apparently.

Interesting that all of Montreal's proposed extensions are at the outer ends of the network--the one mooted inner-city project, the Yellow western extension, is nowhere to be seen. And as noted earlier, Montreal's biggest need--for a new north-south line (probably Pie-IX) to relieve the Orange is nowhere.

Isn't a lot of that (along with Mile End hipsterdom) to be the object of Tramway City? (Couldn't resist.)

 

[GTS]

Scheduled to open this September Vancouver is going to have the first rapid transit link to its airport. With all that is happening with transit in Vancouver it makes me think that my old home town is doing it right. Waterfront Station has a pretty good train connection between regional rail and the Skytrain and here in Toronto Union Station is a very good link to our rapid transit system. I hope that Montreal has good connections with its own regional rail hubs and city buses as well as regional buses.

I hope the AMT gets some of this treatment as well, I read on another site that is how P.E.Trudeau Airport is going to get it's link- via commuter rail. If the commuter rail link to the airport has frequent service I guess it wouldn't make a difference if the link was the Metro or Commuter Rail.

 

[Anth]

I don't think the *underground* section of Eglinton will encounter traffic lights! Or run in the middle of the street. Unless there's a subterranean roadway I'm not aware of.

Right, but the above ground, middle-of-the-street parts will directly affect the underground part.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I don't think the *underground* section of Eglinton will encounter traffic lights! Or run in the middle of the street. Unless there's a subterranean roadway I'm not aware of.

What you don't seem aware of is that only part of the line is in a tunnel, just like the Harbourfront line. When vehicles are bunched around Warden or get backed up behind a car accident at Islington (or when they're *in* a car accident...), we'll test just how "subway"-like the tunnelled portion is.

 

[Ansem]

Right, but the above ground, middle-of-the-street parts will directly affect the underground part.

bingo but our Subway Killer Miller doesn't seem to think so...

 

[GraphicMatt]

What you don't seem aware of is that only part of the line is in a tunnel, just like the Harbourfront line. When vehicles are bunched around Warden or get backed up behind a car accident at Islington (or when they're *in* a car accident...), we'll test just how "subway"-like the tunnelled portion is.

I'm well aware.

Regardless of how well the whole line does or does not work, the underground section should count as part of Toronto's subway network. Especially because they could simply run some trains only in the tunneled section and have service very similar (if not identical) to the heavy rail subway.

 

[Ansem]

What you don't seem aware of is that only part of the line is in a tunnel, just like the Harbourfront line. When vehicles are bunched around Warden or get backed up behind a car accident at Islington (or when they're *in* a car accident...), we'll test just how "subway"-like the tunnelled portion is.

The solution is either

Below-grade open-trenched ROW
or
Elevated ROW

On the Eglinton Crosstown thread there are nice pictures.

Subway would be the best but I could live with the elevated or below grade alternative with trains with the size of the Montreal Metro (Mark II)

 

[unimaginative2]

Why? Frequent loop lines are a nightmare to operate, as there is very little ability to recover from problems. It might work on a infrequent 3-4 trains per hour service, but not on the 20-30 trains per hour that you see on the YUS - or Orange line.

The TTC also wanted to loop the YUS line in the 80s in order to reduce headways and improve reliability. I think that three-track termini or short turns would be a better approach to increase capacity.

Traditionally it was Francophones who complained that their neighbourhoods were poorly served. Part of Westmount actually didn't want a stop.

We don't have to travel all the way to Madrid to learn how to build subways more economically: Montreal also builds them for a fraction of what the TTC now claims they cost, even after overruns.

 

[Ansem]

The TTC also wanted to loop the YUS line in the 80s in order to reduce headways and improve reliability. I think that three-track termini or short turns would be a better approach to increase capacity.

Traditionally it was Francophones who complained that their neighbourhoods were poorly served. Part of Westmount actually didn't want a stop.

We don't have to travel all the way to Madrid to learn how to build subways more economically: Montreal also builds them for a fraction of what the TTC now claims they cost, even after overruns.

150 M$/KM vs 300 M$/KM...

The first thing I've noticed here was the twin tunnels. Are they more expensive than a single tunnel?

Are they necessary?

I know trains can short turn in Montreal in a single tunnel and they work fine...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'm well aware.

Regardless of how well the whole line does or does not work, the underground section should count as part of Toronto's subway network. Especially because they could simply run some trains only in the tunneled section and have service very similar (if not identical) to the heavy rail subway.

Eglinton is not a subway, won't function like a subway, and won't be called a subway.

 

[Ansem]

I'm well aware.

Regardless of how well the whole line does or does not work, the underground section should count as part of Toronto's subway network. Especially because they could simply run some trains only in the tunneled section and have service very similar (if not identical) to the heavy rail subway.

Says who?

I don't see the portion between Union and Queens Quay being included, If Eglinton is LRT with 2/3 of the line waiting at red lights, no Its not a subway

 

[Hipster Duck]

I don't think the *underground* section of Eglinton will encounter traffic lights! Or run in the middle of the street. Unless there's a subterranean roadway I'm not aware of.

The 509/510 tunnel between Union station and Queens Quay avoids all the traffic lights above but you still end up waiting 25 minutes on a Saturday afternoon for a streetcar to show up because of the inconsistencies of the above-ground parts of the line.

EDIT: Ansem already said pretty much the exact same thing.

 

[Paleo]

Because it's impossible to think that they'd have turnbacks and run heavier service in the underground section?

If they go with island platforms and fare-paid areas as well then the central portion will similar quality of service to the existing subway lines.