Miller Derangement Syndrome

[kettal]

That's not true. I dislike him because I don't think he's lived up to the hype. I also did not support his opposition to the Island Airport bridge. And I find his Transit City plan to be ridiculous and am particularly upset that it has cost Scarborough Town Centre a connection to the Bloor/Danforth line. If Pitfield had won we might have seen a much more sensible transit plan.

That's nice.

But the loudmouths who call the radio stations and write editorials to the newspapers are mainly wingnuts who don't even have him as a mayor.

 

[Whoaccio]

Okay, there is actually a really simple answer to this thread. The reason why people hate Miller is the same exact reason why people hate Harper or McGuinty. It has nothing to do with policy preferences or logic, it just an identity game.

 

[Glen]

And now think about what the city has been through in terms of funding.

What like the constant bailouts?
Or emptying the reserves?
Overtaxing renters and business?
Or the more then $1000 per person in additional transfers the city receives?

 

[Glen]

UD2 -- spot on!

I think that a whack of people also hate his green tinge. Flowers in the parks? Green roofs? Subsidies for apt. building siding? Using cold lake water for air conditioning downtown? All red capes to a lot of toros.

Enwave is 20 years old.

 

[GenerationW]

There's this wee little steam train that connects up to the east end of the Danforth line. Why in Gawd's name would the rest of us (defined as 'anyone that wouldn't go to STC on a bet') pay to upgrade the wee steam train to a subway? When there's a zillion other possible LRT/subway/bus/GO routes that would be better deals and more attractive to the rest of Toronto?

What a silly reason to hate Miller.

The wee little steam train is also on its last legs and will be replaced in the next decade, so even snobs who wouldn't go to STC on a bet will pay for it a second time (something that would have been unnecessary if this extension was a subway as originally planned, but that's another story).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What like the constant bailouts?
Or emptying the reserves?
Overtaxing renters and business?
Or the more then $1000 per person in additional transfers the city receives?

Or the fact that the city handles the majority of those in need for the region? Or the fact that the city has the highest transit ridership by far, with the greatest demand for capital and operating funding to such ends? Apples and oranges.

AoD

 

[UD2]

What like the constant bailouts?
Or emptying the reserves?
Overtaxing renters and business?
Or the more then $1000 per person in additional transfers the city receives?

Or the fact that the city is overburdened with downloaded responsibilities from Mikie and Earnie without receiving proportional funding?

That and the fact that the cost of running a city was much more expansive than that of which was promised by the same dynamic dual mentioned above and that the city was never able to operate with balanced books to begin with?

How about the fact that the city of Toronto only retains 6% of all taxation collected in its territory? Or the facts that the only means of city revenue prior to the land transfer tax were your property taxes?

By comparison to other more progressive Asian countries, Canadian cities weren’t designed to survive without monetary injections from upper levels of governments. But when you have upper level governments (Mikie’s and Steveie’s) taking turns ignoring it for over 15 years (1997-2009), why would anybody wonder why city hall is in trouble?

You don’t like being over taxed by the city? Well then stop voting the Conservative Party into office.

Otherwise, bite it.

 

[Glen]

Or the fact that the city handles the majority of those in need for the region? Or the fact that the city has the highest transit ridership by far, with the greatest demand for capital and operating funding to such ends? Apples and oranges.

AoD

Perhaps if the jobs necessesary to lift those people out of poverty were available (you might want to track Toronto's rising poverty stats with the unemployment rate), Toronto would have less need. I didn't forget about TTC funding, that paragon of efficiency. The fact that Toronto has such a system enabled the development of an office core, which it reaps a financial windfall from.


Cart meet horse.

 

[Glen]

Or the fact that the city is overburdened with downloaded responsibilities from Mikie and Earnie without receiving proportional funding?

That and the fact that the cost of running a city was much more expansive than that of which was promised by the same dynamic dual mentioned above and that the city was never able to operate with balanced books to begin with?

So past incompetence is the the fault of the Province?

How about the fact that the city of Toronto only retains 6% of all taxation collected in its territory? Or the facts that the only means of city revenue prior to the land transfer tax were your property taxes?

Just how do you think that this differs from other municipalities? Guess what, people outside of Toronto also pay income, sales, and other taxes taxes. Take into account that they get far less back in provincial transfers....

From Price Waterhouse difference between provincial average funding and 905/GTA funding. Note that funding for Toronto is higher than average in all areas.

• Per Capita Funding Ontario, Provincial Average, Peel
  
• Child Care Services, $803.50, $323.30
• Children’s Services Including Child Welfare, $788.60, $261.00
• Developmental Services, $123.80, $51.40
• Adult Services, $32.60, $10.90

You don’t like being over taxed by the city? Well then stop voting the Conservative Party into office.

Otherwise, bite it.

I have been consistently saying that Toronto residents have been getting off easy. Despite having the highest level of municipal spending it has the lowest residential tax average. It made up the difference by high business taxes, draining reserves, and begging from other levels of government.

 

[lordmandeep]

All I know the city budget is not sustainable.


Its like as if Miller just yells and screams for 2 months to get a budget in order. He then gets what he wants and does not notice he would need to yell and scream even louder next year.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Perhaps if the jobs necessesary to lift those people out of poverty were available (you might want to track Toronto's rising poverty stats with the unemployment rate), Toronto would have less need. I didn't forget about TTC funding, that paragon of efficiency. The fact that Toronto has such a system enabled the development of an office core, which it reaps a financial windfall from.

You made it sound like a linear process when it really isn't - besides, don't forget that social housing and low-rent apartments by default cater to a low-income population - and having high paying jobs won't displace either. Talk about cart before the horse.

Paragon of efficiency or not, you can't compare the costs of operating a system that carries what, 400+ million riders a year at an 80% cost recovery to a single mode system with what, less than 1/5th the ridership.

From Price Waterhouse difference between provincial average funding and 905/GTA funding. Note that funding for Toronto is higher than average in all areas.

Per Capita Funding Ontario, Provincial Average, Peel

Child Care Services, $803.50, $323.30
Children’s Services Including Child Welfare, $788.60, $261.00
Developmental Services, $123.80, $51.40
Adult Services, $32.60, $10.90

Except many of the services listed in the PwC report has to do with hospitals and other institutions that is accessible for all within the region (indeed beyond the region) - and has absolutely nothing to do with funding (or the lackthereof) by the municipality. Just because a certain facility sit within muncipal boundaries doesn't mean the catchment area of the said institution is one and the same. The main thrust of the report isn't an intra-regional comparison (which the numbers you posted does NOT support), but one looks at how the GTA as a whole is underfunded relative to the provincial average. Besides, what if income (or other needs-based measure) is a qualifier of provicinal programs? That by default would skew the numbers in favour of the core city, and has nothing to do with "favouritism". To paste some cherry-picked stats without context is intellectually dishonest - which you have been accused of here before, wrt this report.

AoD

 

[Glen]

You made it sound like a linear process when it really isn't - besides, don't forget that social housing and low-rent apartments by default cater to a low-income population - and having high paying jobs won't displace either. Talk about cart before the horse.

Reality made it near linear not me.
Low cost housing, not government supported, is as easily available outside Toronto as inside.
I never said anything about there being a a lack of "high paying" jobs, just jobs in general. Especially ones where English proficiency is not a requirement.

Paragon of efficiency or not, you can't compare the costs of operating a system that carries what, 400+ million riders a year at an 80% cost recovery to a single mode system with what, less than 1/5th the ridership.

You raised the TTC, which was never part of my argument of unequal funding. None of the items I listed had anything to do with transit funding. Are you trying to make a bigger case for unequal funding?

Except many of the services listed in the PwC report has to do with hospitals and other institutions that is accessible for all within the region (indeed beyond the region) - and has absolutely nothing to do with funding (or the lackthereof) by the municipality. Just because a certain facility sit within muncipal boundaries doesn't mean the catchment area of the said institution is one and the same.

Wrong.

The main thrust of the report isn't an intra-regional comparison (which the numbers you posted does NOT support), but one looks at how the GTA as a whole is underfunded relative to the provincial average. Besides, what if income (or other needs-based measure) is a qualifier of provicinal programs? That by default would skew the numbers in favour of the core city, and has nothing to do with "favouritism". To paste some cherry-picked stats without context is intellectually dishonest - which you have been accused of here before, wrt this report.

AoD

No cherry picking, have a look for yourself.

http://www.gta905health.com/files/Social-Services-Graphs.pdf

http://www.gta905health.com/files/Alliance-Community-Information-Package-Feb-09-rev.ppt

http://www.gta905health.com/files/5063 Assessing the Gap GTA 905_WEB.pdf

http://www.gta905health.com/files/SCC-2-pager-Read.pdf

 

[kEiThZ]

But the loudmouths who call the radio stations and write editorials to the newspapers are mainly wingnuts who don't even have him as a mayor.

Are you sure about that? It's not like every anti-mayor letter has a 905 city listed as the place where the writer is from. I have seen plenty of complaints from inside Toronto.

 

[kettal]

Reality made it near linear not me.
Low cost housing, not government supported, is as easily available outside Toronto as inside.

So the poverty is concentrated in Toronto because they can't climb over the fortified walls on the city border, or is there another reason?

 

[kEiThZ]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...un-for-mayor-criticizes-the-miller-years.aspx

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/GAM.20090616.GEE16ART2255/TPStory/TPComment


Maybe those with MDS will have an alternative.... Miller-Tory Round 2!