Metrolinx Unveils Next Wave of Big Move Projects

[dunkalunk]

The website says fare will be "competitive" and offer "value".
However, I have a sense that it won't be cheap and will only make sense if you are traveling alone. if you have one or two companions you are better off sharing a taxi and save the subway ride to Union and waiting.

The airport express bus currently charges $26.95, running about 35 minutes one way and it doesn't just stop at Union. The train has to do better than that.

Hopefully this will come with electrification of the corridor and subsequent increase in service.

I'd personally love to see two classes of service along the same vein as the Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. One less-frequent express making stops only at Pearson, Bloor, and Union, and another more frequent, more local service making stops at Pearson, Woodbine, Etobicoke North, Weston, Eglinton, Bloor, Liberty, and then finally Union. If the people mover becomes extended to Malton GO Station, then the local service could then be disconnected from the Pearson rail spur and act as a REX-type service out to Brampton/Georgetown

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

gweed:

Indeed - though what I am referring to is that even unfavouable projects can be P3ed by a commensurate increase in the amount of public subsidies provided. There just isn't something called free lunch, that's all.

AoD

 

[gweed123]

gweed:

Indeed - though what I am referring to is that even unfavouable projects can be P3ed by a commensurate increase in the amount of public subsidies provided. There just isn't something called free lunch, that's all.

AoD

Very true. If the ridership is too low or the cost too high, the amount of public subsidy (either at the front end or the back end) needs to increase in order to make it a viable business venture for the company. This is one of the reasons why Ford's P3 Sheppard Subway would have been a terrible idea, because it would have either fleeced taxpayers at the front end (huge upfront capital cost), or at the back end (huge subsidies to whatever company was partnered with in order to make it viable for them).

 

[Wrenkin]

I'd personally love to see two classes of service along the same vein as the Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. One less-frequent express making stops only at Pearson, Bloor, and Union, and another more frequent, more local service making stops at Pearson, Woodbine, Etobicoke North, Weston, Eglinton, Bloor, Liberty, and then finally Union. If the people mover becomes extended to Malton GO Station, then the local service could then be disconnected from the Pearson rail spur and act as a REX-type service out to Brampton/Georgetown

That is the opposite of how Heathrow Express/Connect actually work. Express is more frequent as I recall, every 15 minutes. Connect takes longer (what with the stops), and runs about every half hour, less on evenings and weekends.

 

[EnviroTO]

P3 is usually a bad idea in my opinion. Once you get the benefits of going to open procurement where the lowest bidder meeting expectations constructs the infrastructure and the lowest bidder meeting expectations provides the service what huge benefit are there to the taxpayer of going beyond that? If there is the possibility of profit then a P3 would reduce your income that could have gone to other public projects, and if there is an operational loss that risk would be overcompensated for in the prices taxpayers are paying to the P3 for the service. When politicians talk P3 the they always make it sound like P3 is a shield from cost overruns or that money is going to come from the public sector to pay for something that taxpayers would have been on the hook paying and now will not be. It just isn't true if you think long term, short term it may be true (i.e. the price agreed to may be the price paid and the up front costs may be lower, but embedded into that contract is a budget to cover the risk of cost overruns and although that may not be paid upfront in the contract it will be collected in the latter part of the contract even if that risk of cost overrun is never realized, and if the project being built actually was profitable it could have been money that reduced tax pressure). We pay for it regardless of how pretty the P3 makes it look up front. There is no Leon's No-Money Miracle... you eventually pay.

 

[dowlingm]

With the announced electrification of the Kitchener Corrider will we see an announcement tomorrow that the WCC has disbanded? (dark humour intended)

One wonders how this project will be accomplished, given CN's opposition to mixed freight (at least of the double stack variety) and electric passenger in Montreal. As for the WCC/CTC, it will be interesting to see if they can come up with the full $33,500 awarded to Metrolinx by the Divisional Court.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

P3 is usually a bad idea in my opinion. Once you get the benefits of going to open procurement where the lowest bidder meeting expectations constructs the infrastructure and the lowest bidder meeting expectations provides the service what huge benefit are there to the taxpayer of going beyond that?

Absolutely nothing. People think too short term and are unable to see beyond the next few days. Unfortunately, most don't care about what happens 50, 50 or 100 years from now. As long as they get what they want now.

This is exactly the reason why there has been zero action on things like climate change.

 

[CDL.TO]

Metrolinx has relaunched the Big Move website.

http://www.bigmove.ca/

 

[11th]

What are some of The Big Move’s new initiatives that will make your life easier?

• The northern east-west corridor will open up with the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown LRT line spanning from approximately Jane Street to Kennedy Station. With up to 27 stations along 19 kilometres, you’ll find yourself exploring more of the city.
• You won’t have to squeeze into an over-packed subway on your morning commute after the Yonge-Bloor and Union Station capacity relief projects ease congestion.
• Getting to and from destinations outside of the city will be less of a hassle with GO Two-Way, All-Day Service, which will be offered on all GO corridors.
• Travelling anywhere between Hamilton and Bowmanville? You’ll get where you’re going faster with the new GO Lakeshore Express Rail Service. This upgrade to existing GO services means increased speed and reliability.
• Your commute between Scarborough and North York will be made shorter and less complicated with a Light Rail Transit line on Sheppard from Dons Mills to Meadowvale Road.

If they can integrate GO fare with the TTC, the all-day two-way service should be perfect complement to the TTC trunk routes. It's stupid when you're 2km from a GO station and has to be charged another $2~3 just to ride the TTC to get there.
And, the commute on Sheppard between Don Mills and Meadowvale is complicated, how?

 

[M II A II R II K]

Interesting that the Airport route only costs $456 million, less than half of one of those LRT lines.

I guess you could get a lot of express services on already existing corridors on the cheap, and move far more people over far more distances than on a stretch of one street that acts as a feeder transfer route at best.

 

[Memph]

Interesting that the Airport route only costs $456 million, less than half of one of those LRT lines.

I guess you could get a lot of express services on already existing corridors on the cheap, and move far more people over far more distances than on a stretch of one street that acts as a feeder transfer route at best.

It will carry far less than half of one of the LRT lines though, only 5,000 passengers per day. The Finch West LRT will carry 25 million per year, which translates to roughly 80-100,000 per weekday, and Eglinton LRT will carry 100 million per year.

 

[innsertnamehere]

important to note that $1.2 billion is being spent on upgrading the Georgetown corridor to allow for both increased "regular" GO service as well as the UPE. the $456 million is only for the new spur and the new downtown station.

 

[ssiguy2]

That's an awful pretty map. I don't think there is a city on this planet that makes so many maps of future transit corridors that never get built.

The most notable thing about the Big Move #2 is that it doesn't give any timetables and it doesn't say how they are going to pay for it. Without those things this is just public relations to make it look like they have some form of plan on the go. Torontonians have heard about the DRL for 40 years and the people of Toronto have absolutely no faith in the city's ability to build anything to say nothing of actually building it on time and on budget. This is another cruel joke on the long suffering commuters of Toronto. I bet if you were to poll the citizenry, most would not believe that Eglinton will be finished within the decade.

Metrolinx and the TTC have no credibility and Torontonians are use to new maps and plans every couple of years.

 

[drum118]

That's an awful pretty map. I don't think there is a city on this planet that makes so many maps of future transit corridors that never get built.

The most notable thing about the Big Move #2 is that it doesn't give any timetables and it doesn't say how they are going to pay for it. Without those things this is just public relations to make it look like they have some form of plan on the go. Torontonians have heard about the DRL for 40 years and the people of Toronto have absolutely no faith in the city's ability to build anything to say nothing of actually building it on time and on budget. This is another cruel joke on the long suffering commuters of Toronto. I bet if you were to poll the citizenry, most would not believe that Eglinton will be finished within the decade.

Metrolinx and the TTC have no credibility and Torontonians are use to new maps and plans every couple of years.

A timetable and ranking will come out at the Feb 14 meeting as well some more cost.

The DRL has been around for 102 years.

The question I asked was "how will this Yonge extension support the current line if the DRL does not go to Steeles considering they will be another 100,000 people living along Yonge St if all these development are built that are on the books or in planning stage??" That answer was that it has to be looked at in more detail.

The one comment that was odd was the talk of going to Steeles only with the line being built in phases. At the same time, it was said that York was a good partner and need to work with them.

Funding is and will be an issue. There are to be public meetings after Jan 1st to get public input as to what they are willing to see as tools that can be used to fund this $38B expansion.

 

[waterloowarrior]

here is a list of proposed changes
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd.../20121205_BoardMtg_The_Big_Move_Update_EN.pdf