Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[nfitz]

The Canada Line has the same maximum capacity as the Crosstown at 15k. But it is more reliable, more frequent, and was cheaper to build.

I'm not sure how a 40-metre train has the same capacity as a 90-metre train. Perhaps true east of Laird, where demand is much lower, but not on the section with no crossings and automated trains where they can run just as frequently.

 

[Streety McCarface]

We should wait and see what effects GO RER has on transit between the 416 and the 905, constructing routes like Jane and Eglinton East in the meantime. Don Mills is not a great corridor north of Finch, since it turns into Leslie - which threads between the city centres of Richmond Hill and Markham.

Then send it to Markham City Centre if Stouffville isn't enough. Warden is never going to get a rapid transit line.

I used to live up north of Sheppard/Yonge over 30 years ago, and the demand on Line 1 was huge even back then. Kennedy seemed pretty busy too.

I'm not sure I believe that claim.

Back then 30-40 years ago, Line 2's ridership was closer to 300K PPD, which is a similar level to what the crosstown was expected to get 10-20 years after opening. It's still within the realm of LRT

I'm not sure how a 40-metre train has the same capacity as a 90-metre train. Perhaps true east of Laird, where demand is much lower, but not on the section with no crossings and automated trains where they can run just as frequently.

While I'm not a fan of how small they made the canada line trains, one must consider the fact that:
1. The crosstown is currently being built with 60 m trains.
2. Those trains are far narrower and have choke points
3. West of Laird, frequencies will only be around 3 minutes.

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, it should have been LRT from the beginning..

Please explain.

My think is they should have built from Downsview to STC. Had they done that, the Sheppard line would actually be effective in many ways at being a good line.

 

[Voltz]

Please explain.

My think is they should have built from Downsview to STC. Had they done that, the Sheppard line would actually be effective in many ways at being a good line.

There was not, is not, and won't be enough ridership to require a subway line, could've had something much longer a long time ago if not for this long continuing subway obsession.

 

[north-of-anything]

A grade-separated, Ontario Line-esque solution would be perfect for Sheppard between Dufferin and Victoria Park imo. If we do that, then Line 1 won't have to share its yards anymore.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When they designed Line 4 Sheppard in the 1990's, the powers-that-be only thought that "rapid transit" meant "heavy rail" only.

 

[robmausser]

A grade-separated, Ontario Line-esque solution would be perfect for Sheppard between Dufferin and Victoria Park imo. If we do that, then Line 1 won't have to share its yards anymore.

Please explain.

My think is they should have built from Downsview to STC. Had they done that, the Sheppard line would actually be effective in many ways at being a good line.

One of the plans was to actually extend the Scarborough RT not only to Malvern, but with a fork going west along Sheppard to Downsview.

IMO that would have been a good plan. It not only would have been more suited for the ridership, but it would have turned the RT into a suburban line with merit beyond a stubway to nowhere. It would have given purpose to the transfer at Kennedy.

The RT could then have been extended northwest along Finch, and possibly to the airport south, connecting to the then planned Etobicoke RT, creating a suburban belt line of sorts, similar to the GO ALRT plan.

 

[asher__jo]

Don Mills LRT had the same problem as the Sheppard Line. You already have a subway corridor (the DLR) going that direction, why not just extend Relief Line north towards Sheppard, or if you want something cheaper, something akin to the Ontario Line (which is exactly what we're getting). Same exact thing with the Eglinton Line, it really should've been something similar to the REM/Canada Line.

Transit City wasn't a plan without flaws, but it did democratize transit for ALL of Toronto. It also started the discussion that has led us to the Ontario line and seeing Finch and Crosstown built. Having Sheppard extended is necessary to get it out of the vicious cycle of being underperforming.

 

[micheal_can]

There was not, is not, and won't be enough ridership to require a subway line, could've had something much longer a long time ago if not for this long continuing subway obsession.

Well, we have what we have. It makes no sense to try to convert it. It also makes no sense to force a transfer.

A grade-separated, Ontario Line-esque solution would be perfect for Sheppard between Dufferin and Victoria Park imo. If we do that, then Line 1 won't have to share its yards anymore.

As far as I can tell, it is a subway, but potentially with overhead wires. Using the third rail for power means your tunnels can be smaller, and that is a lower cost.

When they designed Line 4 Sheppard in the 1990's, the powers-that-be only thought that "rapid transit" meant "heavy rail" only.

Well, after the debacle that is the SRT, no wonder. That mess set the city back decades.

One of the plans was to actually extend the Scarborough RT not only to Malvern, but with a fork going west along Sheppard to Downsview.

IMO that would have been a good plan. It not only would have been more suited for the ridership, but it would have turned the RT into a suburban line with merit beyond a stubway to nowhere. It would have given purpose to the transfer at Kennedy.

The RT could then have been extended northwest along Finch, and possibly to the airport south, connecting to the then planned Etobicoke RT, creating a suburban belt line of sorts, similar to the GO ALRT plan.

You mean, have a Skytrain like system? The one thing that the TTC did wrong was to require a driver for them. The Skytrain has been working well without one for decades.

 

[TossYourJacket]

A grade-separated, Ontario Line-esque solution would be perfect for Sheppard between Dufferin and Victoria Park imo. If we do that, then Line 1 won't have to share its yards anymore.

Given any OL extension will end up going up Don Mills (or Victoria Park with a Line 4 extension, but that's probably less likely) we hopefully could look at conversion of Line 4 to OL tech when it reaches up there and the OL yard would dispatch the trains until a dedicated Sheppard yard is built.

 

[NoahB]

I'm not sure how a 40-metre train has the same capacity as a 90-metre train. Perhaps true east of Laird, where demand is much lower, but not on the section with no crossings and automated trains where they can run just as frequently.

The magic ofFrequency and Automation
I'm simply quoting the capacity from the crosstown website. Also, note that the 15k for Canada Line assumes 50m trains. If a 50mx3m train comes twice as often as a 90mx2.65m train, then it will have the same or more capacity.

The whole crosstown line will have to contend with the frequency of human drivers outside the tunnels in addition to the choice of farside platforms. Until that part of grade-separated, the TTC will not be able to control the trains in a way that would allow 90s headways. One left traffic light will derail the whole thing, and the crosstown has to go through many.
The LA Metros LRT lines for example cant be more frequent than 6 minutes because it would mean that no car intersection would be able to go gree long enough to clear a road. (signal priority) Toronto will have to live with that kind of limitation.

 

[Voltz]

Well, we have what we have. It makes no sense to try to convert it. It also makes no sense to force a transfer.

.
The transfer is there now, and it's a long one, if you'd rather have that vs. a same platform transfer to a line with sufficient capacity that will not be slowed down by traffic congestion, that was to have been running five years ago, all seemingly for the sake of being ideologically against transfers, then I just don't know

 

[micheal_can]

.
The transfer is there now, and it's a long one, if you'd rather have that vs. a same platform transfer to a line with sufficient capacity that will not be slowed down by traffic congestion, that was to have been running five years ago, all seemingly for the sake of being ideologically against transfers, then I just don't know

I would rather one train ride along a route. Just imagine if they decided at Bloor - Yonge, no trains continued through how stupid that would be. Neither end of the existing Sheppard subway line makes sense as a terminal station.

 

[Voltz]

I would rather one train ride along a route. Just imagine if they decided at Bloor - Yonge, no trains continued through how stupid that would be. Neither end of the existing Sheppard subway line makes sense as a terminal station.

Don Mills Station does not equal Bloor-Yonge by a long shot, and if anything does not make sense it is waiting another 20 years for a subway extension. The transfer at Don Mills was caused by ideological subway building, not LRT plans.

 

[OneCity]

.
The transfer is there now, and it's a long one, if you'd rather have that vs. a same platform transfer to a line with sufficient capacity that will not be slowed down by traffic congestion, that was to have been running five years ago, all seemingly for the sake of being ideologically against transfers, then I just don't know

Actually this is not true whatsoever. The LRT plan introduced an additional transfer for commuters going to the short subway stub. Such a poor design concept to connect Central Scarborough. Sorry but the benefits of bus to subway is greater then bus to LRT to stubway

And calling people against these extra transfers before the Centre Ideological, really? I think we can hand that honor to the blanket LRT crowd here now as a small number still can't let go of the piss poor designs a decade later. This line is died on it's own merit and the over the top fight to force the Central Scarboroughs transfer LRT lines by outside political interests has only wasted everyone time and money.

So thankful there can no longer be interference on these subway lines that should have been designed and built years ago and we now move on with a fully supportable and connected BRT/LRT and subway network plan