Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[Rainforest]

There is no consensus on Sheppard at this time. It would be best to defer both subway and LRT in this corridor, and use the funding to build Eglinton East LRT.

Sheppard is not the most important corridor, anyway. DRL / Don Mills, Eglinton East and West, Yonge North are more important than Sheppard. Finch is, arguably, of same importance as Sheppard. Each of those corridors will proceed without much debate once the funding is allocated.

In the meantime, Sheppard transit may be improved simply by strengthening the mixed-traffic express bus service. In addition to #190, there should be #85E, and it can run to Malvern Centre during the peak time on weekdays, and to the Zoo on summer weekends.

 

[lead82]

A good solution would be to extend the subway to Agincourt and then LRT the rest of the way. Having the subway end at a Smartrack/GO line and pass through the Consumers road office park would make it more useful. LRT could then go east to Malvern from there. Riders from east Scsrborough would have a quick ride to the GO station and could take that downtown or up to Markham, or take subway west to North York. Eventually I'd love to see the subway go west and end at Shepppard West station to connect with the west branch of YUS line. That's probably never going to happen in my lifetime.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If you care about downtown travel times, a good option is to suspend transit expansion on the Sheppard corridor and built the Relief Line Long.

 

[amnesiajune]

If you care about downtown travel times, a good option is to suspend transit expansion on the Sheppard corridor and built the Relief Line Long.

The $1 billion Sheppard East LRT isn't going to get in the way of a $10 billion+ subway line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The $1 billion Sheppard East LRT isn't going to get in the way of a $10 billion+ subway line.

$1 Billion is a good chunk of the $4 Billion allegedly necessary to extend from Danforth to Sheppard. Cancel all Sheppard Avenue transit expansion and use to to pay for the Relief Line.

Nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing) will have a bigger positive impact on downtown-bound commute times, not just along Sheppard but across all of Scarborough and Eastern Toronto.

Why are we even discussing transit expansion on Sheppard Avenue when the Yonge Line will be at capacity north of Sheppard? The network can't absorb this expansion. Cancel it and spend the money on a project that will be better used and won't break the network.

 

[lead82]

Toronto needs to do both. Connecting Sheppard to the new Smart track provides redundancy by connecting Yonge line to GO line. If Line 1 goes down North Yorkers would have an option to head downtown. I'd rather they cancel the Scsrborough extension and fund the money to connect a stub way to actual other nodes.

DRL must be built ASAP. Maybe the next mayor will smarten up and cancel Gardiner rebuilt and opts to do streeet level replacement.

 

[kEiThZ]

If you care about downtown travel times, a good option is to suspend transit expansion on the Sheppard corridor and built the Relief Line Long.

Cancelling a $1 billion LRT doesn't do much for what will be a $6-7 billion subway.

Who in their right mind will pass up an LRT in the 5-10 years for a subway that if lucky will show up in 20 years, or more likely (with policies in this city) will never happen in their lifetimes.

I am convinced that GO RER will happen before the LRT. And with time regional transport will be centred around that (including inside the GTA). When that happens, the DRL Long becomes even less important. They'll build DRL Short on both sides and probably quit there.

$1 Billion is a good chunk of the $4 Billion allegedly necessary to extend from Danforth to Sheppard. Cancel all Sheppard Avenue transit expansion and use to to pay for the Relief Line.

Ummm. Even if you go back to the LRT. You are still around $1.5 billion. The SRT has to be replaced. Cutting "all Sheppard Avenue transit expansion" is not a relevant idea especially since the SRT corridor isn't anywhere near Sheppard, except at its terminus.

A good solution would be to extend the subway to Agincourt and then LRT the rest of the way.

I am under the impression that a subway till Agincourt will be several billion dollars, more than the entire LRT. Then you add the expense of the LRT from there to Meadowvale. Doubtful there will be apetite for that. This is why, it's better to push for conversion, and barring that, I'd make it clear that the Sheppard subway will be going West as soon as possible and that the DRL Long will come in the next 20 years.

 

[Hopkins123]

I am under the impression that a subway till Agincourt will be several billion dollars, more than the entire LRT. Then you add the expense of the LRT from there to Meadowvale. Doubtful there will be apetite for that. This is why, it's better to push for conversion, and barring that, I'd make it clear that the Sheppard subway will be going West as soon as possible and that the DRL Long will come in the next 20 years.

The last estimate for the LRT was approximately $1.5 billion.

That amount could get us almost to Warden/Sheppard as a subway line. From there it only be another 3 kms to the Agincourt wye from which point the tracks could transition to elevated into Scarborough Centre and continue elevated to Malvern via the same path as the proposed SLRT extension.

Again, using historical figures and adjusting for inflation, you're looking at:

Don Mills to SCC = $2894.7 million in 2016 dollars

Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-45062.pdf

Expensive, yes, but still achievable.

 

[UD2]

The last estimate for the LRT was approximately $1.5 billion.

That amount could get us almost to Warden/Sheppard as a subway line. From there it only be another 3 kms to the Agincourt wye from which point the tracks could transition to elevated into Scarborough Centre and continue elevated to Malvern via the same path as the proposed SLRT extension.

Again, using historical figures and adjusting for inflation, you're looking at:

Don Mills to SCC = $2894.7 million in 2016 dollars

Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-45062.pdf

Expensive, yes, but still achievable.

only way this happens is if the conservatives make it their election platform.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I am convinced that GO RER will happen before the LRT. And with time regional transport will be centred around that (including inside the GTA).

Go RER is hardly going to make a substantial impact within Toronto. It's too infrequent, has too few stations and targets too few riders. It'll help, but it's not a magical solution that'll fix everything. Nothing is

When that happens, the DRL Long becomes even less important. They'll build DRL Short on both sides and probably quit there.

Toronto can't afford quitting on DRL Long. Every projection we've seen thus far has shown the Yonge Line way over capacity in the next 15 to 20 years. The only way to fix this is with the DRL Long. RER is expected to push back its necessity by a few years at most

Ummm. Even if you go back to the LRT. You are still around $1.5 billion. The SRT has to be replaced. Cutting "all Sheppard Avenue transit expansion" is not a relevant idea especially since the SRT corridor isn't anywhere near Sheppard, except at its terminus.

I suggested cancelling the SELRT. I don't see how SLRT factors into this discussion.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The last estimate for the LRT was approximately $1.5 billion.

That amount could get us almost to Warden/Sheppard as a subway line. From there it only be another 3 kms to the Agincourt wye from which point the tracks could transition to elevated into Scarborough Centre and continue elevated to Malvern via the same path as the proposed SLRT extension.

Again, using historical figures and adjusting for inflation, you're looking at:

Don Mills to SCC = $2894.7 million in 2016 dollars

Source: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-45062.pdf

Expensive, yes, but still achievable.

Inflation is s very imprecise tool for measuring changes in the cost of construction. Infrastructure costs are rising far quicker than inflation. The actual cost to build this is almost certainly significantly higher than $2.9b

 

[Fred.S]

I think Sheppard should get a BRT in the centre of the road, east of Don Mills. It would be cheaper and allow all the bus services on Sheppard to use it (not just the 85), notably the 190 express, as well as all the local buses that branch out from Don Mills at Victoria Park. This would ensure there are no added transfers, and should make for a quicker ride for more people, not just those along Sheppard.

Maybe in 20-30 years, when the area intensifies, the subway can then be extended. Though I see value in extending it west to Downsview sooner.

BRT is something that Toronto should be looking at much more. Many major streets in North York and Scarborough, especially those running east-west, have 36 metre right-of-ways. Blocking off two centre lanes with cheap bollards, and maybe some widening to maintain two traffic lanes in each direction would be dirt cheap compared to new rail services. Intersections would take some more work, with passenger platforms, but nothing as elaborate as Viva's rapidways are needed. Plus we already have the vehicles, and many different routes can share the BRT lanes.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Toronto needs to do both. Connecting Sheppard to the new Smart track provides redundancy by connecting Yonge line to GO line. If Line 1 goes down North Yorkers would have an option to head downtown. I'd rather they cancel the Scsrborough extension and fund the money to connect a stub way to actual other nodes.

Problem with extending Sheppard subway though, is that you introduce a short transfer for many people.

LRT/Bus --> Agincourt
Sheppard Subway --> Don Mills
DRL Subway --> Downtown

When we can just make Sheppard/Don Mills the transfer hub instead.

As for improving transit service on the Sheppard corridor, I believe the benefits can be achieved through BRT-lite. Give buses queue-lane jumping at intersections and signal priority and it will be more than adequate upgrade for the Sheppard corridor.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Should have continue reading all the way down the page before posting.

BRT is something that Toronto should be looking at much more. Many major streets in North York and Scarborough, especially those running east-west, have 36 metre right-of-ways. Blocking off two centre lanes with cheap bollards, and maybe some widening to maintain two traffic lanes in each direction would be dirt cheap compared to new rail services. Intersections would take some more work, with passenger platforms, but nothing as elaborate as Viva's rapidways are needed. Plus we already have the vehicles, and many different routes can share the BRT lanes.

Totally agree. We don't even need to have full BRT to achieve what we want for these bus corridors. A BRT-lite would be adequate.

Here is how we figure out the intersections, it is called queue jumping or queue bypass lane:

This can be done at most intersections of our major bus corridors.

 

[W. K. Lis]

You'd think that such intersections would be built when the new suburb developments get to widen their narrow country roads to multi-lane suburban roads. Or when they have to repave or rebuild the intersections in the outer 416. But they don't.

Probably requires an Environmental Assessment or amendment.