Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[quicksilver]

^^Here's hoping the anti-transit pyschos on council don't get their way.

I can fathom one particular anti-transit psycho organizing a trucking blockade on Finch when construction crews show up. Hopefully Toronto's finest can be distracted from their carding operations on that day to help us get beyond it.

#KettleMammoliti2016

 

[GenerationW]

Though if Mammo got run over, I'd be all for a trucking blockade.

 

[quicksilver]

Though if Mammo got run over, I'd be all for a trucking blockade.

I would have agreed with you publicly before the introduction of the federal Bill C-51 by the Conservative government. Now, or when it passes, I'm not sure I wouldn't be supporting some definition of terrorism for which I could be locked up indefinitely in a cold Canadian prison.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I want to know if anyone still thinks the SELRT debate is over? The Liberal could move construction up and end, but they have not.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't know if the debate is over, but the opponents will have a hard time cancelling the thing.

 

[Rainforest]

I want to know if anyone still thinks the SELRT debate is over? The Liberal could move construction up and end, but they have not.

I think that the actual construction will not start until both Scarborough Subway and SmartTrack plans are somewhat finalized.

Some design elements of Sheppard LRT will depend on those two projects.

The "debate" will sort of continue, but is not likely to result in any changes.

 

[quicksilver]

I want to know if anyone still thinks the SELRT debate is over? The Liberal could move construction up and end, but they have not.

I'd like to know what the SELRT cancellation costs will be that Karygiannis, Kelly, Cho and the other anti-SELRT councillors are proposing to bestow on Toronto. Nfitz says there's no Bombardier penalties in this $75M, and I'll take his word on that. But the SELRT was under construction in 2010. There was an underpass built in Agincourt (partly for GO). There was a staffed community office. Real surveying was done. Unlike the Scarborough LRT the plan had moved into the build phase. This suggests costs for cancelling the SELRT would be far in excess of $75M.

 

[44 North]

I want to know if anyone still thinks the SELRT debate is over?

I don’t think the SELRT debate is over by a long shot. And I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a Sheppard Subway extension were to become a hot topic again. I think one key reason will be the 2km ROW north of Ellesmere becoming available with the loss of the SRT. Although this is only 25% of the distance between Don Mills and STC, the potential to run a train on the surface over this stretch could save a sizable chunk of a Sheppard Subway’s estimated cost. How a route from Ellesmere/Kennedy to Sheppard/Don Mills could look is anybody’s guess, but I’m sure it’s possible and could be considered once the SELRT is canceled again.

Another point is the potential for development may have differed from a few years ago. If there’s promise for large-scale greyfield or brownfield redevelopment (which there could be in the Consumers Rd area or along Ellesemere) - ridership projections could be skewed in a subway’s favour over previous forecasts. What was once a firm 4,500 peak can miraculously turn into 15,000 peak. Not that I really believe such a quantum leap is realistic, but cooking numbers is nothing new. And with an extension of B/D, there’s bound to be significant changes in projections than with the SRT + SELRT plans.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think that the actual construction will not start until both Scarborough Subway and SmartTrack plans are somewhat finalized.

Some design elements of Sheppard LRT will depend on those two projects.

The "debate" will sort of continue, but is not likely to result in any changes.

I think SELRT on the kill list. I think it will stay if council backs it...again.

I'd like to know what the SELRT cancellation costs will be that Karygiannis, Kelly, Cho and the other anti-SELRT councillors are proposing to bestow on Toronto. Nfitz says there's no Bombardier penalties in this $75M, and I'll take his word on that. But the SELRT was under construction in 2010. There was an underpass built in Agincourt (partly for GO). There was a staffed community office. Real surveying was done. Unlike the Scarborough LRT the plan had moved into the build phase. This suggests costs for cancelling the SELRT would be far in excess of $75M.

I don’t think the SELRT debate is over by a long shot. And I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a Sheppard Subway extension were to become a hot topic again. I think one key reason will be the 2km ROW north of Ellesmere becoming available with the loss of the SRT. Although this is only 25% of the distance between Don Mills and STC, the potential to run a train on the surface over this stretch could save a sizable chunk of a Sheppard Subway’s estimated cost. How a route from Ellesmere/Kennedy to Sheppard/Don Mills could look is anybody’s guess, but I’m sure it’s possible and could be considered once the SELRT is canceled again.

Another point is the potential for development may have differed from a few years ago. If there’s promise for large-scale greyfield or brownfield redevelopment (which there could be in the Consumers Rd area or along Ellesemere) - ridership projections could be skewed in a subway’s favour over previous forecasts. What was once a firm 4,500 peak can miraculously turn into 15,000 peak. Not that I really believe such a quantum leap is realistic, but cooking numbers is nothing new. And with an extension of B/D, there’s bound to be significant changes in projections than with the SRT + SELRT plans.

The cost are the first thing. They have to be at least 100m now. They've put some infrastructure down along Sheppard East. But I think they could move somethings around. Which brings me to 44 norths post. That is a nice cost saving measure, but the problem with the Sheppard subway, at least to me, was getting it across the 404/Don Valley. That is going to be very difficult.

But like I said, the province could have ended this already. They have chosen not to so far.

 

[44 North]

But like I said, the province could have ended this already. They have chosen not to so far.

But most of the work done so far on Sheppard has been GO-related, and that grade-separation would've been done anyway (wasn't that paid for with the Fed's $300M commitment?). So so far, the Prov hasn't really paid much (relatively speaking).

As for crossing the valley, that was already done with a bridge at Leslie. And tunneling under the 404 shouldn't be anything major.

 

[quicksilver]

But most of the work done so far on Sheppard has been GO-related, and that grade-separation would've been done anyway (wasn't that paid for with the Fed's $300M commitment?).

This doesn't sound right. An unrelated underpass could have been built at Finch or Steeles, where there currently is none. Instead it was built at Sheppard because of the SELRT and is under utilized because so far the SELRT has not been completed. At least half of the construction price has to be associated with the LRT. And the GO line is just one point in Agincourt. The SELRT was under construction from Don Mills to the Conlins car house. If you go to the Conlins site now you'll see the beginnings of what looks like a large retaining wall or water diversion project that was halted in 2010. To cancel the SELRT Karygiannis, Cho, Mammoliti, Kelly and all the other anti-LRT nuts will have to convince council to waste $100 million or more in construction costs.

 

[smallspy]

This doesn't sound right. An unrelated underpass could have been built at Finch or Steeles, where there currently is none. Instead it was built at Sheppard because of the SELRT and is under utilized because so far the SELRT has not been completed. At least half of the construction price has to be associated with the LRT. And the GO line is just one point in Agincourt.

It is right. Sheppard was grade-separated at this time for the impending LRT, but it was scheduled to happen eventually. Just like the grade separation at Steeles is going to (finally) start next year despite it being on the books since the early 1980s.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[quicksilver]

It is right. Sheppard was grade-separated at this time for the impending LRT, but it was scheduled to happen eventually. Just like the grade separation at Steeles is going to (finally) start next year despite it being on the books since the early 1980s.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I think you just wrote the Sheppard underpass was built because of the impending LRT.

 

[smallspy]

I think you just wrote the Sheppard underpass was built because of the impending LRT.

Read again. ..."at this time".

Sheppard was always going to be grade separated, just like Finch and Steeles. It was advanced ahead of Steeles because of the LRT.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[quicksilver]

Read again. ..."at this time".

Sheppard was always going to be grade separated, just like Finch and Steeles. It was advanced ahead of Steeles because of the LRT.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

If you wanted to negate the phrase "Sheppard was grade separated because of the LRT," even with the addition of "at this time," you'd have to write something like "No, the underpass was built because of the GO Train," which of course would be false without another extension such as "and the LRT."