Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[salsa]

I happen to live at Don Mills & Sheppard. I don't get why they aren't extending the subway to at least Victoria Park since they have to dig below the 404. The ridership is certainly there for that short extension. As for the rest of the avenue, the projections are heavily in favour of the LRT.

The ridership is definitely not there for the existing subway, but somehow it's there for that short extension?

 

[rbt]

I happen to live at Don Mills & Sheppard. I don't get why they aren't extending the subway to at least Victoria Park since they have to dig below the 404

This was actually considered and explained in the LRT EA.

There are more riders expected to take the LRT to the mall (or consumers park) from the East than would go from Yonge (or West) to Consumers Park or Vic Park destinations. In short, by taking subway to Vic Park it adds a transfer for many people and removes a transfer for few people.

There wasn't much of a cost difference ($300M or so IIRC) so the decision was made mostly to maximize ridership.

 

[Cobra]

This was actually considered and explained in the LRT EA.

There are more riders expected to take the LRT to the mall (or consumers park) from the East than would go from Yonge (or West) to Consumers Park or Vic Park destinations. In short, by taking subway to Vic Park it adds a transfer for many people and removes a transfer for few people.

There wasn't much of a cost difference ($300M or so IIRC) so the decision was made mostly to maximize ridership.

To my understanding of the EA, the construction of the new Scarborough subway was not taken under consideration at the time due to obvious reasons. So those ridership numbers are inaccurate and we're most likely in the dark again.

That Sheppard money would be better served towards the DRL or Waterfront LRT (which I'm trying to find the route). Transit downtown Toronto is just shamefully neglected

 

[BurlOak]

This was actually considered and explained in the LRT EA.

There are more riders expected to take the LRT to the mall (or consumers park) from the East than would go from Yonge (or West) to Consumers Park or Vic Park destinations. In short, by taking subway to Vic Park it adds a transfer for many people and removes a transfer for few people.

There wasn't much of a cost difference ($300M or so IIRC) so the decision was made mostly to maximize ridership.

That I actually agree with. Extending the subway to Vic Park does not make sense.

Extending to Agincourt, extending to STC, converting to high floor LRT with meter high platforms on Sheppard East and no transfer, or converting to SkyTrain and elevating along Sheppard all make more sense.

 

[rbt]

To my understanding of the EA, the construction of the new Scarborough subway was not taken under consideration at the time due to obvious reasons. So those ridership numbers are inaccurate and we're most likely in the dark again.

Where do you get your understanding from? Numerous options were considered for Sheppard.

What are these obvious reasons? And how was it done in an unofficial manner? Eliminating an option due to high cost relative to ridership in a public forum is consideration.

What is "the new Scarborough subway"? I'm particularly interested in the word "the" implying 1 and only 1. I'm aware of several very different proposals.

Ridership numbers were inaccurate. IMO, all ridership estimates were all too high and BRT (with a zoo branch and a SCC branch) in a dedicated lane is probably the right answer. The ridership estimates even for LRT assume significant development along Sheppard and an increased modal split share. Sheppard subway has not gotten an increased modal split share in favour of transit.

As for West to the Mall versus East to Consumers, you can count these yourself if you have a free day. In my limited experience it appears that TTC got this split right; many more people seem to go up to the mall from the bus or even use the bus-stop immediately before the station than get off at Consumers and Vic park stops. Anecdotal evidence sucks but it's all I have for today.

 

[Cobra]

Where do you get your understanding from? Numerous options were considered for Sheppard.

I don't see the scenario of "how a Bloor-Danforth extension to McCowan & Sheppard would affect travelling pattern" in that EA. The EA was done with the assumption that the Bloor-Danforth would not be extended to McCowan & Sheppard at the time of completion of the LRT

What are these obvious reasons?

Sorry, I meant to say that they couldn't evaluate that eventuality due to Rob Ford irresponsibly derailing a funded transit project. Understandably, a new EA taking that new subway extension into account was not done, which would just delay furthermore any transit improvements

What is the "new Scarborough subway"?

Bloor-Danforth extension to McCowan & Sheppard

 

[jcam]

Unfortunately we could have had the LRT tunnels bored from Sheppard East to Consumers by now.

Back when Metrolinx was buying the tunnelling machines for the Crosstown, they soon saw that timeline-wise, there'd be a significant lag between the start of the first 2 machines Crosstown machines vs. the last 2. Even those first 2 machines were held up in manufacturing to wait for the site to be ready...let along the last 2 machines.

The original plan was to use the 2nd two Eglinton machines to dig the Sheppard LRT under the 404 FIRST, and then take them out and do the Leslie-Yonge stretch of the Crosstown. Tunnel design was completed as far as I can remember.

Election of Ford in 2010 put Sheppard on hold and soon enough the timelines weren't workable after the pause button was lifted. Not sure if they plan on using any of the Eglinton TBMs for any of that drive now.

 

[nfitz]

Unfortunately we could have had the LRT tunnels bored from Sheppard East to Consumers by now.

When Metrolinx delayed funding in Spring 2010, cancelled Eglinton west of Jane, Sheppard east of Morningside, and the SRT extension to Malvern, the plan was that Sheppard East would open in early 2014 (pushed back from an earlier 2013 date).

So not only would the LRT have bored the tunnels, the line would already been running.

The miracle is, is that the 2020 date that was set for Eglinton back in spring 2010 hasn't changed yet! Nor has there been much slippage on the Finch date of 2019.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This should have happened years ago. If you take the York Mills bus during rush hour, you know how awful it is.

The sad thing about the subway extension is that it will do very little to improve the commutes for UTSC students and people who live and work in east Scarborough (other than stroking a few egos). I'll have a 10 minute longer bus ride to rapid transit just to avoid making a 2 or 3 minute trasfer (SRT to BD)

In other words, my commute is now longer than it would be if we had stuck to the SRT plan.

This deal sucks for people in east Scaborough.

 

[salsa]

The sad thing about the subway extension is that it will do very little to improve the commutes for UTSC students and people who live and work in east Scarborough (other than stroking a few egos). I'll have a 10 minute longer bus ride to rapid transit just to avoid making a 2 or 3 minute trasfer (SRT to BD)

In other words, my commute is now longer than it would be if we had stuck to the SRT plan.

This deal sucks for people in east Scaborough.

If it sucks for UTSC students, imagine how short changed those Centennial College people feel.

 

[Dan416]

The sad thing about the subway extension is that it will do very little to improve the commutes for UTSC students and people who live and work in east Scarborough (other than stroking a few egos). I'll have a 10 minute longer bus ride to rapid transit just to avoid making a 2 or 3 minute trasfer (SRT to BD)

In other words, my commute is now longer than it would be if we had stuck to the SRT plan.

This deal sucks for people in east Scaborough.

How can it make your trip take longer?

 

[innsertnamehere]

yea.. if you took the 95E you would go from the same spot (Scarborough Centre), subway or not, and if you took the 116E you would go from Kennedy which is not changing either.. Travel time from UTSC should improve slightly with the subway over the LRT.

The only people really losing out from the subway in terms of time are centennial college students, but even then only by a few minutes.

 

[RyanM12]

So why don't they just have express busses from stc to centennial and utsc. It would be faster than a Sheppard lrt branch, or an ellesmere lrt/brt, or the srt extension.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

yea.. if you took the 95E you would go from the same spot (Scarborough Centre), subway or not, and if you took the 116E you would go from Kennedy which is not changing either.. Travel time from UTSC should improve slightly with the subway over the LRT.

The only people really losing out from the subway in terms of time are centennial college students, but even then only by a few minutes.

Believe me, nobody goes to Scarbrough Centre with the 95E. It's about a 20 min ride to Scarbrough Centre in the day time, 25 minutes during rush hour. Everyone takes the 198 Rocket.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So why don't they just have express busses from stc to centennial and utsc. It would be faster than a Sheppard lrt branch, or an ellesmere lrt/brt, or the srt extension.

They do, and it's ridiculously slow. It takes 25 minutes to get to STC in rush hour.