Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[ehlow]

Update on Sheppard East LRT:
https://twitter.com/Glen4ONT/status/449604376672235520

 

[Rainforest]

Several posters pointed out that Sheppard LRT may become more appealing if its speed is improved by reducing the number of stops.

IMO, it is useful to consider two sections separately: one is east of McCowan, the other is between McCowan and Don Mills.

The current official diagram of Sheppard LRT stops can be found here.

In the analysis below, I assume that Scarborough Subway terminus will be at Sheppard and McCowan. (In case the subway gets cut back to STC, all Sheppard LRT plans obviously have to be revisited.)

Current plan for east of McCowan: distance 7.4 km; 14 stop intervals; average spacing 530 m.



Mandatory stops: 5 interchanges with bus routes at Markham Rd, Progress, Neilson, Morningside, Meadowvale. In addition, I'd like to retain the Dean Park stop, to avoid a super-gap (2.4 km) between Morningside and Meadowvale.

All other stops (8 in total) can be eliminated, if a parallel bus service is provided. New average stop spacing: 7.4 km / 6 = 1.23 km. Time saving: assuming 40 s per stop on average, about 5 min can be saved each way.

The said bus service has an additional benefit of directly connecting the subway to the section of Sheppard Ave east of Meadowvale, and to East Ave (no LRT service there in any case).

There will be an extra cost for the bus service, but the faster LRT operation will partly offset it.

Extra buses needed: about 5 (15-km, 45-min round trip from Meadowvale to McCowan and back) to maintain a 10-min frequency. LRT saving: two trains less, maintaining same 5-min frequency.

 

[Rainforest]

Current plan for McCowan to Don Mills: distance 7.6 km; 14 stop intervals; average spacing 540 m.



In this case, most of stops are mandatory. Six stops are at bus interchanges. One stop is at the Agincourt GO RER / SmartTrack station. Plus, we need stops at Consumers (business park) and Allanford (seniors' residence).

Only 4 stops can be counted as optional: Pharmacy, Palmdale, Bay Mills, and Brownspring. (Pharmacy bus turns west on Sheppard, and will connect to LRT at Vic Park if there is no stop at Pharmacy.)

I am not sure that eliminating those 4 stops makes sense. The LRT will save only 2.5 min each way, but 5 extra buses (perhaps even 6, taking into account the heavy traffic) will be needed to make it possible.

 

[Rainforest]

Therefore, my overall proposal is:

- Frequent LRT stops and no bus service between Don Mills and McCowan
- Wide LRT stop spacing and a parallel bus service east of McCowan.



Average stop spacing: 15 km / 19 stop intervals = 790 m.

Interestingly, the average Sheppard LRT stop spacing will then become similar to the stop spacing of Yonge subway: distance from Union to Finch = 14.9 km; 16 stop intervals; average spacing = 14.9 km / 16 = 930 m.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

How is the service along #85 Sheppard East bus route with the articulated buses?

 

[W. K. Lis]

How is the service along #85 Sheppard East bus route with the articulated buses?

What they really need...

Except that people will continue to enter and egress through the front door (singular) only.

 

[drum118]

What they really need...


Except that people will continue to enter and egress through the front door (singular) only.

Have you ridden one??

I have and the the rear section is the same rough ride as the current 60' buses.

Until there is a true POP system like the rest of the world, yes people will enter the front door.

LRT will give you a smoother ride and offer cheaper operation cost.

 

[jaybe]

Interesting posts by Rainforest.

Considering passenger demand, LRT's are the right transit option for the inner suburbs. The challenge is that LRT's will still interact with traffic at intersections along their route. Traffic light prioritization will address some of the challenge but it won't eliminate gridlock, traffic accidents or pedestrian obstructions that will slow the LRT. Google shows the 16km route from Metro Zoo to Yonge has an estimated travel time along Sheppard at 9:30am of 67 minutes. All of the delays are at the major intersections.

I'd love to see the TTC design a below grade LRT stop that could be used at multiple locations. There has got to be a cost effective way to build easily maintained LRT stations below grade. The idea:

- They would be built with cut and cover construction.
- They would be minimalist in design, primarily poured concrete.
- As they are stops rather than stations there will be no bathroom facilities or additional amenities.
- Similar to the Bay/Queens' Quay stop they would be accessed by stairs and have a single elevator entrance.
- They would be used only at the busiest intersections where gridlock could interrupt the LRT. ie. Vic Park, Warden, Kennedy, McCowan.

I realize this I am proposing a solution without having all the facts. Would this idea make much of a difference in travel times for the LRT's?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I've been riding 510 Spadina for years and from my observations, traffic interfering with the streetcars hasn't been a big issue. I wouldn't spend any money to fix this "problem".

 

[ksun]

Several posters pointed out that Sheppard LRT may become more appealing if its speed is improved by reducing the number of stops.

Same can be said about 512, 510, as well as 501, 504, 505. Stopping every less than 200 meters is insane on Eglinton. The 350M spacing on Steeles is more appropriate.
TTC has a good solid system, and it is the crazy number of stops that make is so slow and frustrating to take.

 

[ehlow]

Same can be said about 512, 510, as well as 501, 504, 505. Stopping every less than 200 meters is insane on Eglinton. The 350M spacing on Steeles is more appropriate.
TTC has a good solid system, and it is the crazy number of stops that make is so slow and frustrating to take.

Welcome back, a classic ksun topic!

 

[nfitz]

Same can be said about 512, 510, as well as 501, 504, 505. Stopping every less than 200 meters is insane on Eglinton. The 350M spacing on Steeles is more appropriate.
TTC has a good solid system, and it is the crazy number of stops that make is so slow and frustrating to take.

What? The Eglinton LRT doesn't have 200 metre stop spacing (or even 200 meter stop spacings!). Neither does the Sheppard East LRT. I haven't seen any designs for Metrolinx's proposed rapid transit on Steeles.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What? The Eglinton LRT doesn't have 200 metre stop spacing (or even 200 meter stop spacings!). Neither does the Sheppard East LRT. I haven't seen any designs for Metrolinx's proposed rapid transit on Steeles.

It's doesn't but but stations like Oakwood and Leslie are being built.

 

[nfitz]

It's doesn't but but stations like Oakwood and Leslie are being built.

The Leslie stop (Metrolinx is calling it a stop, not a station) is 1 km from Don Mills, and 1.3 km from Laird. How is Leslie station related to stop spacings being too close?

Oakwood station is between Dufferin station and Eglinton West station. It's about 1.2 km between those two stations. That's a 600-metre average spacing. Perhaps not ideal, but not different than the spacing we see on parts of the Bloor and Danforth lines, and further apart than the 500-metre spacing we see on the Yonge line between Bloor and Union. Yes, spacing should be a bit further apart, but you need Eglinton West, and you need Dufferin. If you were to skip Oakwood, then you have 1.2 km between stations, which isn't particularly walkable.

There's no other stations as close to each other as Oakwood. And really don't see the complaint about the Leslie stop.

 

[ehlow]

People need to stop complaining about Eglinton Crosstown stop spacing. It's not that bad, it's subway-level stop spacing.

The only adjustment might be removing one or two stops on the surface section. The underground station headwalls are already under construction.