Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[Steve X]

I think they should break it into two routes. Have the Sheppard East LRT run from Sheppard East Station to Malvern Town Centre. Then the EELRT can run from Malvern to Kennedy via Morningside. There is a problem however, the 131-134 buses would serve stops closer to where people actually lives and would attract riders than walking to some LRT station. This isn't the SRT extension but some glorified streetcar, I think will won't be that attractive with just one station at the mall. If they actually build a loop from Neilson/Sewells northeast along Sewells to Morningside, north to Finch, west on Finch and finally south back on Neilson, this will serve a lot more residence and can replace some of the buses looping there. Given that traffic in the Malvern neighbourhood isn't that congested, the could the LRVs street-running on some of the streets.

 

[afransen]

There will probably be some but it won't be as big of a deal as Kennedy Station, due to both Line 2 and Line 4 being there. However I do think that it will lead to more political pressure to extend the Sheppard Subway east within some 30 years after opening.

It is so much more logical for these three lines to meet at STC. Or, make Sheppard and McCowan STC 2 and massively up-zone the area.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Having Sheppard and McCowan as a subway interchange could turn that intersection into another Yonge & Bloor or Yonge & Eglinton.

 

[afransen]

Having Sheppard and McCowan as a subway interchange could turn that intersection into another Yonge & Bloor or Yonge & Eglinton.

I would feel a lot better about that idea if it were explicitly in the city's plans, for the whole 800m-1km radius around the station and not just at the intersection.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Having Sheppard and McCowan as a subway interchange could turn that intersection into another Yonge & Bloor or Yonge & Eglinton.

I mean idk bout bloor yonge but yonge and eglinton or yonge and sheppard for sure. The station is quite close to scarborough centre (the area not the station) so especially with the prospect of a future station i think we can except all the development happening at ellesmere to spread north. The entire areas biggest flaw rn is def walkability so lets hope the sse, pottential sheppard lrt links to the station, and new developments address that

 

[Rainforest]

If that branch of the EELRT to McCowan was built, I wonder how long it would be before people start complaining about the linear transfer.

There will always be someone who complains, no matter what you do

But the scale of complains will be a lot smaller than in case of Kennedy or Fairview Mall. First of all, much fewer riders would be affected. Secondly, the Sheppard East bus can continue to operate between the McCowan terminal and the Rouge Hill GO, overlapping with the LRT for the short 4-km section between McCowan and Morningside. Thus, the addition of LRT will not create a new transfer for those boarding the Sheppard bus east of Morningside.

 

[Rainforest]

Kennedy already has Line 2, SRT, GO, and soon to be Line 5, and it's no Yonge/Bloor. The area needs to have interest in investment, the transit alone isn't going to make the area gentrify.

I'm sure the Yonge & Bloor comparison was meant to be a joke.

On the other hand, we need the suburban transit lines to connect to each other sensibly, in order to attract the existing residents. Adding some local density will be a bonus, but not the sole reason for transit expansion.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If that branch of the EELRT to McCowan was built, I wonder how long it would be before people start complaining about the linear transfer.

There will probably be some but it won't be as big of a deal as Kennedy Station, due to both Line 2 and Line 4 being there. However I do think that it will lead to more political pressure to extend the Sheppard Subway east within some 30 years after opening.

By then there might be the density to necessitate a subway popping up so who knows

It is so much more logical for these three lines to meet at STC. Or, make Sheppard and McCowan STC 2 and massively up-zone the area.

I agree @afransen. This is why the Sheppard McCowan station is such a bad idea. They should bring it down to STC. We have to build yet another terminal as well.

There will always be someone who complains, no matter what you do

But the scale of complains will be a lot smaller than in case of Kennedy or Fairview Mall. First of all, much fewer riders would be affected. Secondly, the Sheppard East bus can continue to operate between the McCowan terminal and the Rouge Hill GO, overlapping with the LRT for the short 4-km section between McCowan and Morningside. Thus, the addition of LRT will not create a new transfer for those boarding the Sheppard bus east of Morningside.

But just the thought of doing this all again in 2040... I'd rather take the subway to STC and begin the LRT from Agincourt GO.

 

[ARG1]

I agree @afransen. This is why the Sheppard McCowan station is such a bad idea. They should bring it down to STC. We have to build yet another terminal as well.
But just the thought of doing this all again in 2040... I'd rather take the subway to STC and begin the LRT from Agincourt GO.

I disagree. Unlike how the network is set up in North York Centre, trying to shove lines to a centralized location when you have a grid based network is a recipe for sloppy design. Sure, having Line 4 terminate at STC makes sense from a "North York to Scarborough Centre" commute, but you also have to factor in other trips as well. Imagine travelling from Malvern to STC, you either take the LRT to Agincourt, then take the Subway down to STC, requiring you to double back on your trip (which is kind of ridiculous), or take the LRT to Sheppard East, and take the bus down to STC, which is also quite questionable. Sheppard East is also supposed to house YRT bus services coming down towards Scarborough, which would make it a natural hub to travel west along Line 4, east along the LRT, or south deeper into Scarborough. With your proposal, people on YRT would have to transfer to the LRT to head west, then transfer to the subway to continue going west on Sheppard? I understand that creating a megahub at STC might at first seem like the most logical option, and at first glance, it seems quite reasonable, but with such a grid heavy system like Toronto's, you have to be very careful at a network perspective when breaking the grid in these ways.

 

[afransen]

I disagree. Unlike how the network is set up in North York Centre, trying to shove lines to a centralized location when you have a grid based network is a recipe for sloppy design. Sure, having Line 4 terminate at STC makes sense from a "North York to Scarborough Centre" commute, but you also have to factor in other trips as well. Imagine travelling from Malvern to STC, you either take the LRT to Agincourt, then take the Subway down to STC, requiring you to double back on your trip (which is kind of ridiculous), or take the LRT to Sheppard East, and take the bus down to STC, which is also quite questionable. Sheppard East is also supposed to house YRT bus services coming down towards Scarborough, which would make it a natural hub to travel west along Line 4, east along the LRT, or south deeper into Scarborough. With your proposal, people on YRT would have to transfer to the LRT to head west, then transfer to the subway to continue going west on Sheppard? I understand that creating a megahub at STC might at first seem like the most logical option, and at first glance, it seems quite reasonable, but with such a grid heavy system like Toronto's, you have to be very careful at a network perspective when breaking the grid in these ways.

Why on earth would anyone from York take the bus to Sheppard to go west? They take the bus straight to the Yonge line.

I don't see why the subway network for Scarborough should be designed around making it convenient for people Sheppard East of McCowan to get to North York. STC is the growth centre, it should be prioritized for rational transit.

Frankly, extending the LRT to Malvern seems dubious at best. Why not accomplish the same thing with dedicated bus lanes and enable flexible routing?

 

[ARG1]

Why on earth would anyone from York take the bus to Sheppard to go west? They take the bus straight to the Yonge line.

I don't see why the subway network for Scarborough should be designed around making it convenient for people Sheppard East of McCowan to get to North York. STC is the growth centre, it should be prioritized for rational transit.

Frankly, extending the LRT to Malvern seems dubious at best. Why not accomplish the same thing with dedicated bus lanes and enable flexible routing?

If you're travelling from McCowan Road, you're not going to sit on the bus for 12km if there's a Line 4 4-6km south.

Ultimately, you can't design transit to solely serve specific commutes. The benefit of grid based design is that even more obscure routes are possible while still doing a decent job with the major commutes. While STC is a major growth center, the growth center is being applied to the entirety of McCowan Road up to and including Sheppard-McCowan, and with Line 4, Sheppard-McCowan WILL become a major density center. It also makes future extensions east a lot easier, having the line terminate at STC for the most part limits where extensions can go (unless you have it follow where the Durham BRT will go).

 

[afransen]

If you're travelling from McCowan Road, you're not going to sit on the bus for 12km if there's a Line 4 4-6km south.

Ultimately, you can't design transit to solely serve specific commutes. The benefit of grid based design is that even more obscure routes are possible while still doing a decent job with the major commutes. While STC is a major growth center, the growth center is being applied to the entirety of McCowan Road up to and including Sheppard-McCowan, and with Line 4, Sheppard-McCowan WILL become a major density center. It also makes future extensions east a lot easier, having the line terminate at STC for the most part limits where extensions can go (unless you have it follow where the Durham BRT will go).

It will never make sense to extend Sheppard east of McCowan. Ellesmere, sure. Sheppard should eventually replace the western portion of the Durham BRT.

 

[ARG1]

It will never make sense to extend Sheppard east of McCowan. Ellesmere, sure. Sheppard should eventually replace the western portion of the Durham BRT.

Why are you so sure? A lot of things can change in 30-40 years. I feel for Ellesmere, since we have the Scarborough RT corridor, a light metro that uses that corridor + more makes a lot more sense.

 

[Steve X]

Why are you so sure? A lot of things can change in 30-40 years. I feel for Ellesmere, since we have the Scarborough RT corridor, a light metro that uses that corridor + more makes a lot more sense.

I have to agree on Ellesmere. Even with the SRT gone, Ellesmere is the better interregional corridor. It's closer to STC (which the GO/DRT terminal will be located), the Centenary hospital and most importantly UTSC. Sheppard has nothing and is a diversion from Kingston Rd while connecting to the Durham Region.

 

[nfitz]

[/QUOTE]Or better yet, if rider

Why are you so sure? A lot of things can change in 30-40 years. I feel for Ellesmere, since we have the Scarborough RT corridor, a light metro that uses that corridor + more makes a lot more sense.

Hmm, what if the Ellesmere BRT were to use the old SRT corridor and ROW from Markham all the way to Kennedy, serving Centennial College, Scarborough Centre, Lawrence East (existing), and Kennedy.