Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[DavidH]

Not sure enough people realize that the only way to make that Ajax-Zoo trip cheaper is to increase the cost of that Long Branch to Zoo trip (in the absence of a totally new revenue/subsidy model that is)........since a significant number of the trips that would have to be increased would be trips within the city of toronto and a significant number of the trips that would be made cheaper are 905-to or through-416 trips it is likely a very difficult political battle....no? What mayor of Toronto wants to be the guy saying to the guy at Long Branch that his fare has to go up to venefit the guy in Ajax?

I used a deliberately-bad example with Ajax gtiven the cross-border nature of the trip but one can easily come up with in--Toronto examples that benefit the careless - e.g. taking the subway a few kilometres.

The reality is a fare-by-distance system would have to come in across the GTA.

 

[Jonny5]

Took some photos of the presto system on a Burlington bus today that was just installed.

Per the Burlington Transit webiste, Presto goes live for May. I assume that's May 1, for pass purposes.

So the next question is when does the rest of this phase go live, on the same day? It's supposed to include the entire Lakeshore West GO network. I have seen prep work at most GO stations to install the card readers, so they could pull that off.

Also, by "Lakeshore West", are they including Hamilton Express? What about the infamous 1:30am Hamilton Local?

 

[DavidH]

The May deployment for GO is for Lakeshore West *rail* lines only. Lakeshore West buses will come into Presto next winter, according to the current schedule.

As to whether the different operators in Phase 2 will go live at the same time, I don't think we can assume that. There may be multiple go-live dates.

I wouldn't say that "May" means "May 1", though. Usually those kind of references are code for the last day of the month, not the first.

 

[Platform 27]

The May deployment for GO is for Lakeshore West *rail* lines only. Lakeshore West buses will come into Presto next winter, according to the current schedule.

As to whether the different operators in Phase 2 will go live at the same time, I don't think we can assume that. There may be multiple go-live dates.

I wouldn't say that "May" means "May 1", though. Usually those kind of references are code for the last day of the month, not the first.

In at least this case, it does indeed mean May 1 for Burlington. This council doc (pdf) mentions it on top of page 2. No idea if Oakville will be the same, though.

 

[hwy7]

Oh, heck. It doesn't work.

 

[SGHA504]

I believe it's actually May 10th.

 

[kEiThZ]

One thing that's always surprised me about Presto is why they didn't do Ottawa first. Ottawa has a decent sized transit system that would offer up many of the challenges that Toronto would have with Presto. Yet at the same time, Ottawa, already having POP, would be a far easier implementation. It would have made an excellent test market.

 

[TOareaFan]

One thing that's always surprised me about Presto is why they didn't do Ottawa first. Ottawa has a decent sized transit system that would offer up many of the challenges that Toronto would have with Presto. Yet at the same time, Ottawa, already having POP, would be a far easier implementation. It would have made an excellent test market.

Isn't Ottawa missing the "regional transit" link that GO offers though? Testing it in Ottawa which (as far as I know) is a one-system region would be a very limited test.....no?

 

[Platform 27]

One thing that's always surprised me about Presto is why they didn't do Ottawa first. Ottawa has a decent sized transit system that would offer up many of the challenges that Toronto would have with Presto. Yet at the same time, Ottawa, already having POP, would be a far easier implementation. It would have made an excellent test market.

I think you raise an excellent point. I reckon the likeliest reason is that Presto was initially conceived as a GTHA-only project, and Ottawa were relative latecomers to the party when someone smart pointed out there was no reason the same cards couldn't be used there, too. Also, while Ottawa has some characteristics that make it a useful testbed market, it also lacks one of the key features that you'd need to fully test out the Presto platform, namely interchange between different agencies with different fare structures. (I suppose it wouldn't be explicitly impossible for Gatineau to eventually get Presto, but I imagine the provincial border would really muddy things when it comes to figuring who pays for what.)

 

[RedRocket191]

One thing that's always surprised me about Presto is why they didn't do Ottawa first. Ottawa has a decent sized transit system that would offer up many of the challenges that Toronto would have with Presto. Yet at the same time, Ottawa, already having POP, would be a far easier implementation. It would have made an excellent test market.

Basically because Ottawa didn't sign on until later in Presto's development. They didn't sign on until August, 2008 - after the first trial ended.

 

[kEiThZ]

I realize that. Still think it would've made a good test full implementation test market though.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think you raise an excellent point. I reckon the likeliest reason is that Presto was initially conceived as a GTHA-only project, and Ottawa were relative latecomers to the party when someone smart pointed out there was no reason the same cards couldn't be used there, too. Also, while Ottawa has some characteristics that make it a useful testbed market, it also lacks one of the key features that you'd need to fully test out the Presto platform, namely interchange between different agencies with different fare structures. (I suppose it wouldn't be explicitly impossible for Gatineau to eventually get Presto, but I imagine the provincial border would really muddy things when it comes to figuring who pays for what.)

Not too much. Gatineau already has a electronic fare payment system. Either they would have to find a way to interface them or require some kind of special pass to transfer between the systems. At the end of the day, most people still ride OC Transpo buses to work into Gatineau and most Gatineau residents ride STO buses into Ottawa. I am sure they could figure out something. And it would have been an excellent challenge to work on. I'd say there are similar jurisdictional issues in the GTA. They just don't have differing provincial administrations in the way.

 

[TOareaFan]

Does Presto signal the end of the GO-Via Pack? Currently it relies upon the conductor of the train seeing that the passenger presenting the coupon book has, either, a monthly GO pass or a cancelled ride on a 10 ride ticket........if all the passenger has done is "tap" his presto at the GO station how would the conductor know that they use of the GO-Via pack is valid? Are VIA conductors on the effected routes going to have little mini-portable Presto readers strapped to their hips?

 

[Platform 27]

Not too much. Gatineau already has a electronic fare payment system. Either they would have to find a way to interface them or require some kind of special pass to transfer between the systems. At the end of the day, most people still ride OC Transpo buses to work into Gatineau and most Gatineau residents ride STO buses into Ottawa. I am sure they could figure out something. And it would have been an excellent challenge to work on. I'd say there are similar jurisdictional issues in the GTA. They just don't have differing provincial administrations in the way.

In the case of Presto, all the "back-office" costs are borne by the province. There'd potentially be a problem if STO got to hop aboard Presto with Ontario taxpayers paying for the underlying operating costs.

 

[hwy7]

Does Presto signal the end of the GO-Via Pack? Currently it relies upon the conductor of the train seeing that the passenger presenting the coupon book has, either, a monthly GO pass or a cancelled ride on a 10 ride ticket........if all the passenger has done is "tap" his presto at the GO station how would the conductor know that they use of the GO-Via pack is valid? Are VIA conductors on the effected routes going to have little mini-portable Presto readers strapped to their hips?

I asked Presto exactly this question. Here's the answer:

Thank you for contacting PRESTO. PRESTO is a partnership involving Ministry of Transportation, GO Transit and nine municipal transit authorities: . Oakville Transit . Burlington Transit . Brampton Transit . Mississauga Transit . Hamilton Street Railway . York Region Transit . Durham Region Transit . OC Transpo . TTC (participation at 12 subway stations) Each transit authority will continue to set its own fare policy. Watch for more information on this from your transit service provider.

So, who knows. I've not yet asked VIA.