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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Used a YRT express bus the other day.

I even asked on Twitter if I had to put in 2 extra quarters after tapping Presto and they said yes.
When I went to board, no one else was doing it and the driver said I didn't have to.
Checked online and it indeed did withdraw an "express" amount (although it was $4.23 instead of $4.25 on the site).

If YRT can do this, why can't TTC for Premium routes?
 
WillTo said:
If YRT can do this, why can't TTC for Premium routes?
Click to expand...
Don't YRT buses have some kind of interface the driver uses with Presto? The vendor for TTC (Metrolinx!) has yet to provide any such devices - that's part of the problem. It was all going to be automatic ... but the failure rate on detecting which buses were on premium routes (and which buses weren't on premium routes ... oops!) was too big, both undercharging and overcharging in testing.

Perhaps TTC needs to take over Metrolinx to clean up this mess.
 
steveintoronto said:
Every time I'm on the Bloor platforms, or in the tunnels, there's someone completely befuddled by what to do. And now they've painted the UPX machines blue, like that clears up all the confusion.

Classic example of how not to do things.
Click to expand...

With English and French signs, of course. Useless for the illiterate people, blind (including colour-blind), or non-English (non-French) reading people, as the train pulls in.
 
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Given all the drama with the TTC+Presto, I'm curious how Presto fared with the other agencies? From my experience, all the local agencies handle Presto phenomenally with my only problems being with the Presto machines at VIVA stops sometimes switching on/off as if it were trying to stop me from paying my fare. From my understanding the TTC installed the 2nd generation of Presto into their system (while everyone else installed the 1st version) so it's quite funny to see an improvement turn into a broken mess. Presto must be related to the 737 MAX.
 
I almost wonder if some of the things could be the TTC doing things to any Metrolinx because they really didn't want to use Prest and them were the last to install it and it was only because Metrolinx agreed to pay more of the share and also add in more extra things then other agencies requested.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I almost wonder if some of the things could be the TTC doing things to any Metrolinx because they really didn't want to use Prest and them were the last to install it and it was only because Metrolinx agreed to pay more of the share and also add in more extra things then other agencies requested.
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That's not what the report states:
“Metrolinx has not committed to delivering the remaining and unfulfilled contractual obligations that were fundamental to the TTC entering the agreement,” the report says.
Having to operate both Presto and the “legacy” system of tickets and tokens that the fare card was supposed to replace is expected to cost the TTC roughly an additional $10 million per year.
Well-documented reliability problems with Presto devices are one issue the report identifies. But the TTC also says Metrolinx hasn’t introduced promised features such as allowing customers to pay their fares on Presto devices with credit or debit cards, or providing single-use Presto tickets for buses and streetcars.
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https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ion-to-presto-cards-delayed-indefinitely.html

It's not the TTC making this up.
 
ViveleCanada said:
Given all the drama with the TTC+Presto, I'm curious how Presto fared with the other agencies? From my experience, all the local agencies handle Presto phenomenally with my only problems being with the Presto machines at VIVA stops sometimes switching on/off as if it were trying to stop me from paying my fare. From my understanding the TTC installed the 2nd generation of Presto into their system (while everyone else installed the 1st version) so it's quite funny to see an improvement turn into a broken mess. Presto must be related to the 737 MAX.
Click to expand...
TTC was the only agency (other than KW I suppose) that came to the table with detailed specs on what they needed in a fare card. As they'd been working on a fare card project for years, and had already issued an RFP for one, they had an advantage over the other agencies.

Looking at the deal that Metrolinx signed - it's very detailed on exactly what Metrolinx will provide. I can only (once again) conclude that Metrolinx has terrible lawyers and contract negotiators, as they very clearly agreed to things (like implementing the TTC transfer table AS-IS) that they could never deliver. I can only assume that eventually, Metrolinx signed the deal to break years of impasse and negotiations.

See the hundreds of pages of detail (in particular in Master Agreement) in the four 2012 agreements linked from the bottom of http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto_ttc.aspx.
 
nfitz said:
TTC was the only agency (other than KW I suppose) that came to the table with detailed specs on what they needed in a fare card. As they'd been working on a fare card project for years, and had already issued an RFP for one, they had an advantage over the other agencies.
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[...]
One thing to remember as you read about the latest setbacks in the Toronto Transit Commission’s implementation of the Presto card fare system — now going on eight! smash! years! since it was approved by the board with no definite end in sight — is that this whole thing was forced on it. The TTC had another plan, not just in mind but out for tender, and with a contractor already selected to implement it, as the latest official report on the evolving fiasco details.
That was in 2010. The TTC realized then that the future was in “open-payment” systems that let people tap their credit or debit cards, or use their phones. By now you’re certainly familiar with it. That’s how many of us buy coffee, groceries and most everything else.
The province’s Presto card didn’t do that, so the city and its transit agency looked for someone who could. They were still going to let provincial agency Metrolinx bring Presto to the TTC, but they’d do open payments, too.
[...]
Metrolinx promised then that open payment and the other advantages that come with such an “account-based” system would be fully part of what Presto would handle as it was introduced. And that, according to the report, is the biggest outstanding thing Presto still cannot do, and will not be able to do for the foreseeable future. The whole technology Metrolinx developed is incompatible because it ties information directly to a card, instead of tying various cards to an account where information is stored. No work has been done on open payments since 2016, and Metrolinx won’t commit to any timeline on it.
[...]
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https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...y-doug-ford-could-you-help-us-fix-presto.html
 
nfitz said:
TTC was the only agency (other than KW I suppose) that came to the table with detailed specs on what they needed in a fare card. As they'd been working on a fare card project for years, and had already issued an RFP for one, they had an advantage over the other agencies.
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I think Ottawa had a good idea of what they wanted out of a fare system, though not to the detail an RFP would require. They also, cleverly (until gas tax funding was threatened), left an escape hatch in the form of a barcode based payment system.

As far as how well it's worked for them, Ottawa also generally feels they got a raw deal, particularly after the rate renewal.
 
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Stolen, damaged Presto cards causing headaches for transit users
Social Sharing

Users on the hook for 24 hours after a card is reported stolen, can't transfer money between registered cards

Nick Boisvert · CBC News · Posted: Jan 08, 2019 4:49 PM ET | Last Updated: January 8
[...]
Damaged cards causing headaches
The Presto system has been plagued with issues since its rollout, which have been mostly centred around faulty card readers.
In December, Toronto Mayor John Tory urged the province to "get this program into shape" and a TTC union representative has called the system "a debacle." As of January, it is now the only way for Metropass users to ride the TTC.
A number of transit users are now directing their ire at Presto's online account management, which is being described as confusing and needlessly complicated.
Like Dixon, transit user Adam Rathwell was recently stunned by the system after his original Presto card was damaged and rendered unusable.

He ordered a new one and registered the card, hoping to transfer the funds "like you would with any other membership card."
He was shocked to learn that wasn't possible since his new card was already activated.
"It's not like this is a new thing," Rathwell said. "It's not like paying for something with a card is revolutionary and cutting edge."
Jennifer Hollett, a former Toronto city council candidate, experienced the identical problem in December and shared the story on social media.


Jennifer Hollett@jenniferhollett
https://twitter.com/x/status/1075427499717189632

Gather round #TOpoli. This is a story of three Presto cards. Specifically, why I now have three Presto cards.
146
12:27 PM - Dec 19, 2018
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120 people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy


She remembers feeling "her head was about to explode" when a Presto customer service agent explained that she was not able to transfer funds to an already registered card. Like Rathwell, she ordered a third card to transfer the money before activating it.
"I have told this story to a few of my friends, and they are so confused they ask me to repeat the story," Hollett said. "I tell them again, and I'm still confused by it."
Presto working on changes
Rathwell says the process of replacing a damaged card involved "jumping through a lot of hoops" and wasn't intuitive.
Aikins said Metrolinx is actively working on a new account-based system, where funds would be tied to a user's account rather than the card itself. That change could make it easier for users to move funds around and prevent situations like Rathwell's.
In the meantime, Aikins said people can still access money tied to damaged cards, as long as they follow the correct steps.
"It isn't a perfect system by any means, but it certainly is better than losing all of your funds," she said.
In the year 2019, Rathwell says, the system should be much more sophisticated and streamlined than it is.
"It has so much potential, the Presto card," he said. "It's great when it works, but when it doesn't, it reveals every flaw of the system."
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/presto-card-problems-1.4970434
 
steveintoronto said:
Accenture. They screwed up big time for the Gov't prior, so they were chosen to do more work for them. Makes sense...phhhhh....
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System builder of Presto fare card had poor track record
JOHN LORINC
SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED DECEMBER 18, 2012
UPDATED MAY 10, 2018

The giant U.S. consulting firm hired to build the troubled Presto fare-card system had a history of problems delivering multimillion-dollar contracts for the Ontario government, a detail not included in last week's Auditor-General's report about delays and ballooning costs associated with the project.

Accenture, a $28-billion firm with 257,000 employees, won the 10-year, $250-million deal in 2006, just four years after a former Ontario auditor-general slammed the firm for a $60-million increase on a $180-million deal to automate the province's welfare system. Erik Peters criticized that project as "seriously flawed" in 2002 and identified further unresolved problems in 2004.

Despite that track record, the company – which generates part of its revenue by operating outsourced government information systems – continued to receive public contracts, including a $38-million deal to operate the welfare system, as well as three sole-sourced consulting contracts worth $1.3-million with eHealth Ontario.

Accenture officials declined to comment. But in an interview, Auditor-General Jim McCarter said his recent review of the original Presto tendering process revealed nothing that would have excluded Accenture based on its previous work. "Up front, they had a pretty good requests-for-proposals process."

Mr. McCarter's report identified several deficiencies, including several untendered contract extensions negotiated between 2009 and 2012, totalling $496-million. Among these was a $344-million request from Accenture to build an "open fare" system that allows riders to pay by tapping credit or debit cards and smart phones on contactless readers as they board transit.

According to Metrolinx, that deal was vetted for fairness by Grant Thornton, an accounting firm, at the request of the board. "When the original procurement was done, it was always envisioned that the vendor would deliver a fare card that had the ability to expand service" to other communities and new technologies, CEO Bruce McCuaig said.

However, Mr. McCarter said that tendering the project would likely have pushed Accenture to bring back a more competitively priced bid.

Accenture also failed to roll out the basic Presto card by October, 2010, as stipulated in the contract. Mr. McCarter's report found that Metrolinx and the provincial government failed to use its contractual authority to penalize the company for missing deadlines. They also allowed the project to be managed by external consultants, who were paid $4.2-million, despite instructions in the initial procurement policy that such tasks should be handled by provincial employees.

In the wake of the auditor's report, Metrolinx officials said they will be imposing tighter performance controls on Accenture, which oversees several sub-contractors that are responsible for delivering different parts of the system.
[...]
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...re-card-had-poor-track-record/article6551526/
 
ViveleCanada said:
Given all the drama with the TTC+Presto, I'm curious how Presto fared with the other agencies?
Click to expand...

Before the TTC's full rollout, I'd never seen any issues with Presto. On Go Transit it worked flawlessly, on YRT the only flaw was the lack of availability on TTC buses, and the TTC had machines in a bunch of subway stations (downtown stations and transfer points) that all worked flawlessly as well.
 
So I wouldn't be surprised if Accenture bribed the Libs in giving them that contract. The Libs has the worst management and wouldn't know who to hand contracts to. They should just stop spending money on it and replace the damn thing within a decade.
 
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