Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[W. K. Lis]

Though it is unclear when 'time of writing' is, the following figures from the TTC's CEO monthly reports are:

September Board Meeting: At the time of writing, approximately 1,200 buses or 62% of the fleet have been equipped with PRESTO readers

October Board Meeting: At the time of writing, 1,369 buses (71% of the fleet) have been equipped with PRESTO readers.

November Board Meeting: At the time of writing, approximately 1,650 buses, or 84% of the fleet, have been equipped with PRESTO readers.

It looks as though they ought to meet their 'end of December" deadlines.

Very probably the ones without the PRESTO readers by the end of December would be the ones in for maintenance or repair.

 

[rbt]

Ottawa has a new deal. Gradual increases to 6%. That still seems high to me considering Ottawa paid upfront for the capital costs.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...rm-deal-securing-presto-as-smart-card-for-lrt

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Ottawa has a new deal. Gradual increases to 6%. That still seems high to me considering Ottawa paid upfront for the capital costs.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...rm-deal-securing-presto-as-smart-card-for-lrt

This is disturbing. For a provincial government that prides itself in investing in transit, it is siphoning away farebox revenue from municipalities by doing this. If the government had guts, it would cover Presto operating expenses.

But hey, the province just got Toronto to pay for GO train stations, so they seem to think they can keep getting away with it...

 

[DSC]

This is disturbing. For a provincial government that prides itself in investing in transit, it is siphoning away farebox revenue from municipalities by doing this. If the government had guts, it would cover Presto operating expenses.

But hey, the province just got Toronto to pay for GO train stations, so they seem to think they can keep getting away with it...

Though I do not disagree with your basic point; it is not only Toronto who have to pay a contribution to Metrolinx for infrastructure. (See info at https://stevemunro.ca/2016/09/26/does-toronto-owe-metrolinx-half-a-billion/ )

 

[steveintoronto]

That does what exactly? This gives no sense as to how the precentages change between those who rise the TTC and those who don't, let alone those who do and don't use Presto.

I never claimed that it did. I work with math daily. What it *disproves* is that there is total satisfaction with Presto.

The point is that there are glitches and shortcomings that still need to be addressed.

Problems with Presto fare cards are more than just a handful, if complaints from readers are any indication.

What do you think?
Thank you for voting!
Yes. 46.66% (314 votes)

Yes, I've had problems with the card readers? 16.49% (111 votes)

No, no problems at all. 17.98% (121 votes)

Yes, I've trouble with financial transactions. 18.87% (127 votes)

Our Monday column detailed the woes of a Presto user who battled GO Transit for months over an account balance far greater than the amount that appeared when he tapped his card on a reader.

He was credited with the correct amount after we talked to Metrolinx, which operates Presto and GO, but it prompted about 20 emails from readers with similar problems.

They also reported balances that were less than the actual amount in their accounts, cash top-ups that disappeared, readers that wouldn’t work and customer service staff that were unable to resolve problems.

Metrolinx says Presto has nearly one million cardholders across the GTA, Hamilton and Ottawa, and processes about 12 million transactions and card taps monthly. It says problems are extremely rare and limited to “a handful” each month.

Tell that to the people who had money in their Presto account but couldn’t tap into it when they tried to use their card.

Mary Jane Stockton said she transferred $60 into her account from her bank card last July but was never credited with it, even though it “instantly” disappeared from her bank account.

“That is $60 I will never see again,” said Stockton, adding she’s given up fighting Presto to recover her money.

“Now I try to pay it at a counter, so at least I can see it done, but even then I am terrified every trip that it will not show up and there’s not one thing I can do about it.”

Robert Johnson said his son’s credit card was debited $100 a month ago, but only $20 was credited to his Presto account, and that he’s still waiting for a refund or the money to show up on his balance.

Shirley Harrison, who’s 77 and rides the GO train from Oakville to Toronto to see her doctor, said her account has twice been debited for a return trip to Niagara Falls, even though she tapped her card on a reader when she got off in Oakville.

Harrison complained to Presto that she didn’t go to Niagara Falls, but was told “the rules are the rules” and she’d have to pay. She said she no longer uses Presto.

Tyler Johnson said he topped up his account with $50 in October, but when he tried to use his Presto card on a GO bus, “the driver indicated I did not have sufficient funds.

“They said it was returned to my bank account, but it wasn’t,” said Johnson, adding the same problem has since happened again, but he got the money back a few weeks later.

We’ve forwarded the complaints to Metrolinx and asked it to explain why so many people are having problems with balances and card functions.

And we still want to hear from anyone who’s had similar Presto problems. Email us at thefixer@thestar.ca or jlakey@thestar.ca .

https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto...th_presto_cards_transit_riders_say_fixer.html

There's no shortage of complaints on Presto Cards. Is the methodology of these surveys scientific? Hardly. But that does not render a logical conclusion that persons having these problems are "whiners" as claimed by more than a few posters. There are problems.

 

[amnesiajune]

But that does not render a logical conclusion that persons having these problems are "whiners" as claimed by more than a few posters. There are problems.

The difference between pointing out problems and whining is whether you're actually trying to solve the problem. If your complaint is that online reloads don't process instantly, that's whining. There isn't a farecard system in the world that lets you do that. If your complaint is broken/buggy fare terminals, that's valid if you're actually asking the right question - why is the TTC struggling to set up a system that works flawlessly on every other Presto-enabled transit system, and worked flawlessly with the original setup at Finch, Union, Don Mills, York Mills and Islington?

 

[steveintoronto]

If your complaint is that online reloads don't process instantly, that's whining.

Well thanks for clarifying that...

why is the TTC struggling to set up a system that works flawlessly on every other Presto-enabled transit system

"works flawlessly on every other Presto-enabled transit system".

You live in a dream. Or is it just convenient amnesia?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

why is the TTC struggling to set up a system that works flawlessly on every other Presto-enabled transit system,

Wasn't it just last week that Hamilton attributed the low usage of Presto in their city to the unreliability of the system?

 

[DSC]

Wasn't it just last week that Hamilton attributed the low usage of Presto in their city to the unreliability of the system?

Yes, and the TTC is a far more complex system than any other - made more so by their insistence *+(or Council's insistence) on retaining their Byzantine transfer rules!

 

[steveintoronto]

Wasn't it just last week that Hamilton attributed the low usage of Presto in their city to the unreliability of the system?

http://prestopain.ca/

There's a litany of problems. And I'm not "whining". Admitting that Presto is far from perfect is the first step to making it better. But denial, as clearly shown by some, stymies the process to correct the system. Glitches are to be expected, but Presto appear to not learn from the reports on them in many cases.

Ontario, and agencies like Metrolinx, hide behind a wall of secrecy. FOI is a theory, not practice.

In all fairness to GO, they've remedied almost all of my complaints. But some of them keep repeating, contrary to claims that they will be addressed.

Yes, and the TTC is a far more complex system than any other - made more so by their insistence *+(or Council's insistence) on retaining their Byzantine transfer rules!

Indeed, it's making the inherent limits on the present Presto architecture unworkable in many respects.

The fact that the TTC don't (or can't) publish the rules and tariffs on their fares in *discreet language* only exacerbates 'things going wrong'. It also means that come to an appearance in court, the TTC can't make their case in instances of 'fare evasion'.

How can anyone be found guilty of violating rules that can't be written?

 

[amnesiajune]

Wasn't it just last week that Hamilton attributed the low usage of Presto in their city to the unreliability of the system?

Searching on Google for "hamilton presto reliability" or "hamilton presto usage" doesn't turn up anything about this in the past month.

http://prestopain.ca/

Linking to a website that's been inactive for three years? And let's dissect some of this:

Once you have your card (in about 5 business days if you order online) you need to go online again to activate it. Then you need to wait another 24 hours before you can use it.

That's not true. You can use Presto cards as soon as you buy them, provided that there's some balance on them

To login to Presto you have to enter in a 17 character card number that is virtually impossible to memorize.

You can set up a username for the website

Once in, you have to navigate through a few pages and enter your credit card number in order to top up your card. It then takes 24 to 48 hours for the credit to show up on your card. This is not a glitch, it’s the intended design of the system.

First of all, it's now a maximum of 24 hours. Second, it's also the intended design of every other farecard system in the world. Many of them have longer waits than 24 hours.

This expectation is deeply engrained because it’s how every other payment card works. Gift cards, bank cards, credit cards, coffee cards and other transit cards like Oyster.

Oyster also has a period of up to 24 hours before your funds are guaranteed to be available

Presto cards need to be tapped on a Presto card reader on a bus in order to activate them.

No... You can also do this at the balance checking and self-serve reload machines.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Searching on Google for "hamilton presto reliability" or "hamilton presto usage" doesn't turn up anything about this in the past month.

Right here: http://m.hamiltonnews.com/news-stor...etrolinx-offer-for-using-presto-unacceptable-

"Hamilton residents have been slow to use the Presto card due to what transit staff has called an “unreliable system.” Only about seven per cent of HSR rides use Presto, compared to 60 per cent for the rest of the province."

It was discussed in this thread back when the article was posted.

 

[Adjei]

Keep whining!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Right here: http://m.hamiltonnews.com/news-stor...etrolinx-offer-for-using-presto-unacceptable-

"Hamilton residents have been slow to use the Presto card due to what transit staff has called an “unreliable system.” Only about seven per cent of HSR rides use Presto, compared to 60 per cent for the rest of the province."

It was discussed in this thread back when the article was posted.

I'm genuinely surprised Presto has such low usage in Hamilton. I've visited Hamilton a few times in the past year, and whenever I'm HSR I felt as if most people were using Presto. And I've never had any problems with Presto on HSR. But obviously I'd trust the experience of HSR staff; theyd know better than me.

7% usage is shockingly low. That may very well be less than the Presto usage on the TTC.

 

[ticky]

This has probably been asked before: If I get onto a TTC bus on a route they have advertised as being Presto-enabled and the reader/s don't work and/or the bus doesn't have a Presto reader, I ride for free and shouldn't be expected to pay with another method, correct?