Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[JamesKoole]

This would be monumentally stupid. Nobody's going to pay a premium

People have paid a premium for the 143/144 buses for years. Whether the 900 series express are at that level, probably not. All I was saying is that being all in on Presto makes it easier for the TTC to explore some of these additional fare options including premium routes, zones and off-peak discounts (or peak premiums).

 

[W. K. Lis]

24 hours anything with PRESTO is not right.

She lost her Presto card, then had to watch as a stranger racked up charges

From link.

A Burlington woman who had to watch helplessly as a stranger racked up charges on her lost Presto card is raising concerns about the fare system that is quickly becoming the main way to pay for transit across the GTHA.

Heather Dixon’s frustrations began Monday, when she was taking the GO train home to Burlington. As the train approached her station she realized she couldn’t find her Presto card.

“I looked around quickly and I couldn’t see it, so then I just had to get off the train,” she said.

Dixon, 39, who works in publishing, asked a GO employee what to do about her card, which still had $93 loaded on it.

The employee advised her to visit the Presto website and report her card lost.

Dixon said she immediately went online and did so, but was surprised to read it could take up to 24 hours for Presto to actually block her lost card and that she would be liable for any charges made to the card in the meantime.

Later that day she checked her account activity online and discovered a lucky but unscrupulous GO rider was using her card, taking a bus in Burlington, and then heading toward Port Credit. Whoever it was quickly spent about $20.

“It was frustrating to me to know that somebody had my card and was going to use it, and there was nothing I could do about it,” Dixon said. “I was pretty mad.”

To make matters worse, Dixon had set up Presto’s auto-load function, which automatically adds money from a customer’s credit card or bank account to their Presto card once its balance dips below a pre-set level.

Dixon feared whoever had her card could rack up enough charges over 24 hours to have the auto-load kick in, costing her yet more money.

She wanted to cancel the auto-load feature, but in an online help chat Monday evening a Presto representative told her that was impossible as auto-load can only be cancelled before a card is reported lost. No one had told her that.

“I just think the advice I was given was not the best advice,” she said.

Frustrated, Dixon took to Twitter to vent, calling Presto a “horrible idea.” The tweets captured the attention of Metrolinx, the provincial agency in charge of Presto, and by Tuesday the organization promised to reimburse her for the money the stranger had spent on her card.

Dixon said she was happy with the eventual outcome, but says she no longer trusts the fare card, which she called “super inconvenient.”

“Why does it take 24 hours, and what can be done to fix things?” she asked.

According to Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins, the lag for making changes to fare card accounts online, which includes other transactions such as loading funds, is not unique to Presto.

“Many well-used fare payment systems across the world have wait times associated with online transactions,” she said in an email. Transactions at Presto machines in subway stations and elsewhere can be instantaneous.

Aikins said the reason it can take up to a day for online changes is that all Presto account information is stored on the fare card itself. When a customer makes an online transaction such as adding funds to or cancelling their card, the change is logged into the central Presto system, then the updated information is distributed to fare devices across the transit system.

The updated account information is only transmitted to a customer’s physical card once they tap it on a Presto device.

However, some Presto devices connect to the central network less often than others.

Fare card readers on TTC vehicles are frequently connected to the central system through a mobile network, so a customer tapping on those machines can implement changes to their account quickly.

But Presto card readers on GO buses only connect to the central network when they enter one of the agency’s garages, which they only do about once a day.

However, the auto-load function can be disabled instantly on the Presto website. Aikins couldn’t immediately say why Dixon wasn’t advised to disable that feature before cancelling her card, but said the agency is updating the messaging on its website to clarify the issue.

Asked whether other Presto users who find themselves in Dixon’s situation will also be reimbursed for any lost funds, Aikins made no guarantees.

“While we do look at each situation independently, our policy is that we are not responsible for costs incurred within 24 hours of cancellation,” she said.

Presto is used by 11 transit agencies across Ontario. This month the TTC, by far the region’s biggest transit system, took a major step toward the full implementation of the technology by eliminating its Metropass. Customers must now buy monthly passes on Presto instead.

The TTC plans to stop selling older fare media like tickets and tokens in August, and stop accepting them at the end of 2019.

Don't like the 30 days requirement to make the card active. Should be 90 days, to cover vacations. Should be able to activate (or deactivate) the card on-line, right away, like they have with credit cards now.

 

[PinkLucy]

And you should be able to report the card lost and cancel auto renew at the same time.

 

[raptor]

24 hours anything with PRESTO is not right.

She lost her Presto card, then had to watch as a stranger racked up charges

From link.











Don't like the 30 days requirement to make the card active. Should be 90 days, to cover vacations. Should be able to activate (or deactivate) the card on-line, right away, like they have with credit cards now.

Geez, so it's Presto's fault for her being clumsy? don't lose your card.
She made a mistake (lost her card), so she had to deal with the consequences.

 

[WillTo]

Geez, so it's Presto's fault for her being clumsy? don't lose your card.
She made a mistake (lost her card), so she had to deal with the consequences.

Agreed. Any sense of personal responsibility is being lost.
What if you lost tokens, tickets, or cash? You are just plain out of luck.

 

[PinkLucy]

But what if it had actually been stolen?

 

[raptor]

But what if it had actually been stolen?

What if any other personal property is stolen?

 

[PinkLucy]

I'm asking if the rules are the same for lost and stolen. They often are. So if it were stolen, would she be eligible to have the funds returned? Would she have been able to cancel auto-renew more easily? She says she lost it, and maybe she did drop it or something. But someone picked it up and used it, which is theft.

 

[nfitz]

Does seem odd to me that they racked up $21. That's 7 two-hour TTC fares. In less than 24 hours? I'm assuming they didn't notice straight-away.

Still ... even $21 at the beginning of January is a lot less than the cost of losing Metropass at the beginning of January.

Also, 24-hour is the maximum. I did a change to my autoload settings yesterday at about 2:50 pm. Checking my Presto history, my next tap was on a streetcar at 6:30 pm, and it processed the "Card Setting Change". That's a lot less than 24-hours - which applies more to the non-TTC bus services using older Presto technology that need to be manually downloaded every night. Sure, there's some TTC equipment that isn't updating properly, but if someone is tapping frequently on a stolen card, it's going to hit, on average, a machine that processes the card cancellation in a lot less than 24 hours after it was issued.

 

[salsa]

Geez, so it's Presto's fault for her being clumsy?

Nobody said that except you. Her complaint had everything to do with Presto's failure to deactivate the card in a timely manner, and not being given the right advice from customer service.

Does seem odd to me that they racked up $21. That's 7 two-hour TTC fares. In less than 24 hours? I'm assuming they didn't notice straight-away.

"Later that day she checked her account activity online and discovered a lucky but unscrupulous GO rider was using her card, taking a bus in Burlington, and then heading toward Port Credit."

 

[Neutrino]

Or we could start charging males higher fares, based on wage disparity between males and females.

The wage gap is a myth when you actually look into the underlying factors, but carry on.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From this link...

Your questions answered about the Presto fare card
...

Does the TTC plan to introduce caps that would limit the amount Presto users would be charged in a single day, week or month?​

​

Following the lead of other transit agencies, the TTC intends to introduce a cap in the spring that would only charge customers for the first 16 trips they take in a week. Subsequent trips would be free.​

​

But the agency has no plans to introduce daily or monthly maximums. Brown said that with the TTC’s new two-hour transfer rule, customers would have to travel close to eight hours before they would benefit from a daily cap.​

​

She said a monthly cap was ruled out because the Presto system “is only able to support one loyalty program on a card,” and the TTC decided to use it for a weekly cap. That’s because the agency already has a monthly discount product in the form of the monthly pass (formerly called the Metropass).​

​

When will the TTC introduce single-use Presto tickets? ​

​

The TTC plans to start selling single-use tickets, which will allow customers to take one trip without buying a $6 Presto card, by June at the latest.​

​

The tickets would cost the same as a cash fare, which currently sits at $3.25. Metrolinx has been testing the tickets since November, and says they might even be ready sooner than planned.​

...

 

[nfitz]

Is it just me, or have there been less broken Presto readers on buses and streetcars in the last 2-4 weeks? I"m not sure I've seen a single one out since New Years ... and I often used to see one or so a day.

 

[amnesiajune]

People have paid a premium for the 143/144 buses for years.

Very few people have. Those "premium" buses are by far the TTC's biggest money-sinks.

"Later that day she checked her account activity online and discovered a lucky but unscrupulous GO rider was using her card, taking a bus in Burlington, and then heading toward Port Credit."

That's not $20. It's around $9.00 one-way.

 

[nfitz]

Very few people have. Those "premium" buses are by far the TTC's biggest money-sinks.

I've always paid an extra fare. I"ve seen a lot of regulars with the sticker on their metropass (haven't ridden since New Years).

I wouldn't think fare evasion on that route is much higher than elsewhere. Heck, looking at the crowd riding the 143 - I suspect it's lower than average (I'm referring to the business attire)