Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[MetroMan]

-- I can reload in person (instant), at vending (instant), or online (24 hour). No fare system worldwide has instant online reload, since Presto cards don't have built-in radios to sync in realtime.

I forgot about the 24 hour online reload wait. That's a huge stumbling block for a non local if they decide to download the app (coming soon) and load their card that way. There doesn't have to be a radio on the card itself. If you load your card, it should communicate it to the entire system so that the next time you tap your card anywhere, it'll update your balance. That's how it works now but it takes up to 24 hours because many of the terminals aren't connected in real time. There's no reason they shouldn't be. Cell radios are commonplace on everything from dog collars to pizza delivery to parking meters. Cell radios are cheap and ubiquitous.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I forgot about the 24 hour online reload wait. That's a huge stumbling block for a non local if they decide to download the app (coming soon) and load their card that way. There doesn't have to be a radio on the card itself. If you load your card, it should communicate it to the entire system so that the next time you tap your card anywhere, it'll update your balance. That's how it works now but it takes up to 24 hours because many of the terminals aren't connected in real time. There's no reason they shouldn't be. Cell radios are commonplace on everything from dog collars to pizza delivery to parking meters. Cell radios are cheap and ubiquitous.

Well, when they release the app, Android support for reloading cards directly will most likely come with it. And with Apple opening NFC for student cards in iOS 12, it'll probably apply to iPhones next year.

 

[ehlow]

Why were Presto readers installed near the back doors of buses if we can't get on using the rear doors?

 

[nfitz]

Why were Presto readers installed near the back doors of buses if we can't get on using the rear doors?

You need them when buses are used on streetcar routes, when you can enter at the rear.

Also, TTC has announced that everyone leaving a subway station will eventually have to either tap out of the station or onto a bus; so they'd be used there.

I've been told to tap at rear when boarding a bus and the front reader is broken. So it also provides a backup reader now on any route!

 

[mdrejhon]

The new fast-performing Presto machines have been deployed at TTC Union.

They also behave like the Presto add-value machines but allows you to buy passes and new cards, and even accepts small change (including nickels and dimes) so they also replace TTC token machines.

They seem as quick to slap a single token onto a Presto card as the old mechanical token machines were. Hope they stay reliable.

One machine functioning now, another under deployment:

 

[mdrejhon]

IMPORTANT PRESTO TIP

For The LAZY

Immediately save a quick photo of the BACK of your NEW Presto card!!!

This may save you hundreds of dollars in lost TTC passes.

If you don't feel like registering your card (like so many forget to do so).

That makes it possible to retroactively register a lost Presto card, AFTER already losing it.

It works! You just register via typing online your own photographed (or written down) Presto card number. Wait 24 hours for the activation. Then online-claim the card as lost. Transfer to a new card online. Then any remaining lost value is fully resurrected.

Then you get your TTC pass back at no charge onto any new Presto card (except that $6 fee). Without needing to pay nearly $150 for a new TTC pass to replace your lost TTC pass.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Then you get your TTC pass back at no charge onto any new Presto card (except that $6 fee). Without needing to pay nearly $150 for a new TTC pass to replace your lost TTC pass.

Depending on where you get it you may have to spend more than $6 as they won't let you get an empty presto card at a go train station.

 

[Andy T]

Depending on where you get it you may have to spend more than $6 as they won't let you get an empty presto card at a go train station.

You can definitely get a empty Presto card at a GO station. Every defective/lost card I had I ended up getting a empty replacement card at my local GO station.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

You can definitely get a empty Presto card at a GO station. Every defective/lost card I had I ended up getting a empty replacement card at my local GO station.

The people at the go train stations I've gone to don't seem to understand that and have had made me put money on it.

 

[steveintoronto]

IMPORTANT PRESTO TIP

For The LAZY

Immediately save a quick photo of the BACK of your NEW Presto card!!!

This may save you hundreds of dollars in lost TTC passes.

If you don't feel like registering your card (like so many forget to do so).

That makes it possible to retroactively register a lost Presto card, AFTER already losing it.

It works! You just register via typing online your own photographed (or written down) Presto card number. Wait 24 hours for the activation. Then online-claim the card as lost. Transfer to a new card online. Then any remaining lost value is fully resurrected.

Then you get your TTC pass back at no charge onto any new Presto card (except that $6 fee). Without needing to pay nearly $150 for a new TTC pass to replace your lost TTC pass.

Sorry, it's been a demanding day in a number of ways, and I might be short a few neurons, but what you describe appears to lend itself to being used surreptitiously to cash in by someone finding a loss or stolen card.

 

[11th]

Fare vending machines now available at all TTC stations, according to that page on Presto official site.

 

[Fritter]

Depending on where you get it you may have to spend more than $6 as they won't let you get an empty presto card at a go train station.

You can definitely get a empty Presto card at a GO station. Every defective/lost card I had I ended up getting a empty replacement card at my local GO station.

The people at the go train stations I've gone to don't seem to understand that and have had made me put money on it.

Officially, GO Employees are to charge a minimum of $10 plus the $6 fee to any new PRESTO card issued, however the system allows for just a penny to be loaded.

 

[mdrejhon]

Sorry, it's been a demanding day in a number of ways, and I might be short a few neurons, but what you describe appears to lend itself to being used surreptitiously to cash in by someone finding a loss or stolen card.

The only thing needed to register a Presto card is the number on the back.

It doesn't matter
--> if you're registering online via reading off your physical card.
--> if you're registering online via reading the numbers off your own private photo of your long-lost card.
--> if you're registering online via reading previously-written-down numbers of your long-lost card.

My point is retroactive registration of your own already-lost Presto card is possible.

This allows you to retroactively recover your own funds and metropasses ....if you wrote down or photographed your own Presto Card number.

This is legal. This is not theft. It's just a valuable number, of your own just like your own credit card number.

• It's not illegal to shop online after losing your credit card, if you remember your own credit card number or have written it down in your safekeeping location (often, we safely lose our credit cards inside the house, so not super-urgent to call card company right away yet; sometimes we hope to finally find the card).
• Likewise, for other cards like gift card numbers (purchasing stuff online with gift cards using the number displayed on the gift card's back).
• Or with Presto Card numbers (retroactively registering & transferring funds from a Presto card that you've already lost).

Some keep their account numbers (Bank, Presto, Credit Cards, Mortgage) on a post-it note in their bedroom drawer. Others simply use their cameraphone. Yet others use a password manager. Etc. It's no different for Presto cards, nothing illegal about keeping your own private copy of your own Presto card number.

As long as it's your very own card number, it's legal. What's the difference? There's no implications to theft.

More INFO: There are many people who can use a cameraphone, but have huge difficulty (e.g. dyslexia, disability) spending 20 minutes with a simple website registration form that takes me only 3 minutes. Even my dad, who is 84 years old, even knows how to take a photo with his phone. Or writing presto number down on paper and storing it in a bedroom drawer.

The fact is it is often faster to just snap a cameraphone photo or write down the Presto number, than to go through the registration wizard at the Presto website.

So instead of losing $146 dollars (TTC metropass) then your life is saved because you remembered to take a your own private photograph (or written-down numbers) of the back of your own Presto card -- which makes it possible to register your own Presto card retroactively after you already lost your own Presto card.

(and you can always ask your spouse/kid/assistant/etc to register for you, if you have difficulty using the website to register a card. Yes, there's the 24 hour delay to register the card -- and then immediately claim card as lost and then transfer balance of your already-lost card -- to a blank card you now have in your hands -- but hey, you don't have to buy a new Metropass at least!).

Sure, sure, (off my point) yes, theoretically, anyone can "steal" any unregistered Presto card by looking at your card without a photo. They can simply by reading the numbers off your back, then registering it, then claiming the original card as lost (and transferring the value away from the original now-voided Presto card). But, your unregistered Presto card is at risk regardless of using a photo or not. And a cameraroll/note is harder to steal than a physical card. Plus, nobody else can re-register a Presto card that has already been registered. And besides, this wasn't what my post was talking about. That is a separate point from my topic.

Mine was simply alternative time-saving insurance completely unrelated to theft. The risk of your privately photographing or privately writing down your Presto card does not increase average risk, and rather actually decrease your average financial risk if you feel unable or too lazy to register your card.

This works offline without reception, data plan, and you can even choose paper instead of camera too. You're worried about losing a valuable Presto card, but for some reason not registered right away? (abilities, or time, or no Internet during that day, or disability, or no data plan / offline iPod, or in a hurry, or lazy, etc). Then just snap a pic of your Presto card's back. Done! Now you instantly have insurance! Who can argue with that??

This way, you've delayed the dreaded Presto-card-registration work "until only when needed or able to" -- even long after you lose the card. Or at least until you're more able to register (always recommended ASAP, but still!) The odds of lost Presto funds are much higher with physically stolen cards, than physically stolen Presto numbers. There are not as many smartphone-hackers (stealing your private photos) and note-stealing (stealing your privately written-down Presto card number) as Presto-card-stealing going on. Either way, academic, even this is a totally separate debate unrelated.

The point is, you instantly reduce your risk of Presto financial loss simply by immediately taking a photo of the back of your Presto card.
Not everyone can register online right away (disability, dyslexia, no reception, browser problem, lazy, job, hurry, etc)

I might be short a few neurons

I agree on you about many things you write, but I agree: Your reply is indeed a "short a few neurons" reply to me as you so eloquently admitted.

 

[mdrejhon]

Officially, GO Employees are to charge a minimum of $10 plus the $6 fee to any new PRESTO card issued, however the system allows for just a penny to be loaded.

Unofficially, some discretion is given for the offer of free Presto card replacements.

The most helpful people are always the York Concourse at the Toronto Union Station -- those wickets have almost always given replacement Presto cards out for free upon trade-in of a defective/cracked/nontappable Presto card. At discretion (not always) -- they will sometimes even give you a free card for a lost Presto card, e.g. pleading poverty, showing student/senior ID, etc. But you must go to these specific wickets at Union station to get odds of the most favourable "lost Presto card" treatment.

Officially, at most places, a replacement card is $6 even if you have a damaged card.

However, in practice, there is generous discretion at the York Concourse of Union station (Union Station is the Metrolinx headquarters -- the Metrolinx offices are right above the concourses!)

So go to York Concourse for the best Presto card replacement service.

 

[nfitz]

Yeah, I've had good luck at Union Station - particularly since it moved to the York concourse.

With an eager 4-year old in tow, they quickly solved the doesn't accept birthdates younger than 6 years by adding 2 years to his age (I'll have to fix that one day).

And when I wanted to grab a Seniors card, knowing an OAP would be staying for us soon, they simply asked for a birthdate (knowing it wasn't for me).

Very pragmatic and sensible. Which only makes sense, as even kids and seniors Prestocards are transferable! I routinely use the one for the 5-year old (aka 7 year old) for my 10-year old's friends on GO.

(the 4-year old got a card to open the TTC subway gates, after an incident in London when they darted through the Oyster-activated faregate too fast, and the parent couldn't go through! The old TTC gates weren't an issue, as 4-year old just walked under the turnstile without even having to duck - but the new ones are more of a challenge)