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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

I do not see the issue with open fare payment. To be honest, I would prefer to pay with my credit card over buying a PRESTO card. That is the point isn't it? Having an option other than PRESTO for paying a fare. We should know by now, it wise not to take comments from politicians seriously. The TTC is sticking with PRESTO, there are already readers in place at some stations, I do not see PRESTO being abandoned. One thing, I would like to know is, why is the province taking so long to give the TTC money to fully implement PRESTO throughout the entire system?
 
Wild speculation: This is incredibly political. TTC management doesn't like Presto because they see it as something being forced on them by an outside group, and they weren't consulted much during the design process. Giambrone is just parroting back what TTC staff are telling him. He does this a lot.

That said, if they can get a credit card company or Moneris or whoever to foot the bill and allow for Credit Card payments on the TTC and have it implemented by next year, then they'd be stupid NOT to do it.
 
i am confused about open payment. does this mean when i want to take the bus or subway i take out my credit card and swipe it through a reader? if so, this takes some time for the reader to communicate with Visa and verify that the card is working. seem to me the complexity and amount of time this takes is exactly why every other major transit system in the doesn't use this method and instead uses a Presto like system, as well as for other beneficial reasons. the TTC never fails to amaze
 
"Rocco Rossi jumped on the TTC yet again, the transit system’s troubles having been a consistent theme throughout the campaign so far, to say he’d have the Red Rocket running on a smart card fare system within 90 days if he wins the Oct. 25 election." -The Sun

I hope this is just the paper misquoting him. If not... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I look forward to him promising to build 100km of subway in 12 months.
 
nstuch said:
i am confused about open payment. does this mean when i want to take the bus or subway i take out my credit card and swipe it through a reader? if so, this takes some time for the reader to communicate with Visa and verify that the card is working. seem to me the complexity and amount of time this takes is exactly why every other major transit system in the doesn't use this method and instead uses a Presto like system, as well as for other beneficial reasons. the TTC never fails to amaze
Click to expand...

No. It means you leave your Visa card in your wallet and bring it within an inch or two of a reader which records your fare within a tenth of a second and lets you go. The transit agency (or convenience store or other location) will sum up your charges for the day and bulk bill overnight.

Another option is to load your Visa/Mastercard/Bank Account details onto your cell-phone if you happen to live in a technically advanced society and tap that against the reader for a tenth of a second.

There is a good reason why many major transit systems are testing the open-payment based systems to replace or compliment their current hodge-podge of independent and non-portable systems. The big catch here is Visa and Mastercard want to be the exclusive card if they are installing the system.
 
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I don't understand why the TTC is so hesitant to adopt Presto as to be open to adopting other "similar" cards. Maybe Metrolinx should have done more to consult the TTC? Not that I'm excusing the TTC here, I think they're mostly inept and should accept Presto and try to improve it.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I don't understand why the TTC is so hesitant to adopt Presto as to be open to adopting other "similar" cards. Maybe Metrolinx should have done more to consult the TTC? Not that I'm excusing the TTC here, I think they're mostly inept and should accept Presto and try to improve it.
Click to expand...

In a nutshell, the TTC has a "made in house" culture where they are very weary to implement any idea that didn't come from within the organization. I'm sure there was consultation during the early stages of Presto, but it's likely that a time came when agencies had to choose if they were in or out. The TTC decided that they were out.

Flash forward a few years later and the TTC is now in a position where they are forced to adopt a system that they never wanted in the first place. They aren't allowed to say no, so perhaps these shenanigans are their form of non-violent resistance?

For the record, my comments above are based on my opinion having been a follower of transit issues for the last decade or so. I am not, nor have I even been privy to the discussions which I referenced above. I don't even have proof that they took place.
 
I would prefer the open system which accepts Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, and other RFID style payments over one which only handles Presto. Why add yet another card to your wallet? I would rather register my credit card with the TTC and have it treated like a Metropass or a Presto card than actually carry around a Metropass or Presto card. No more cards please. The garage door card, employee access card, bank card, credit card, Metropass, Air Miles, Shoppers, Aeroplan, Blockbuster, Car Rental, AutoShare, health card, drivers licence, Starbucks card, etc is quite enough thanks. Everyone with a credit card is going to have RFID in a year or so. Why not simply record the ID in a registration process and treat it like a Presto ID? It works for other rewards systems.
 
DavidH said:
Well, this is ugly. Adam Giambrone posted to Twitter:

@kklyeung Presto has not actually started development, that's the problem. Open payments is not a new system, which is why it is good.

PRESTO replied:

@Adam_Giambrone PRESTO is available now on Oakville & Burlington Transit, GO Lakeshore West & 7 TTC stations w/ more coming online this year


It's really sad to see that Giambrone doesn't even know that his system has already implemented PRESTO.
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wow...
 
DavidH said:
PRESTO replied:

@Adam_Giambrone PRESTO is available now on Oakville & Burlington Transit, GO Lakeshore West & 7 TTC stations w/ more coming online this year
Click to expand...

You can't trust Presto... they don't even exist yet. You shouldn't trust someone that does not exist.
 
rbt said:
No. It means you leave your Visa card in your wallet and bring it within an inch or two of a reader which records your fare within a tenth of a second and lets you go. The transit agency (or convenience store or other location) will sum up your charges for the day and bulk bill overnight.

Another option is to load your Visa/Mastercard/Bank Account details onto your cell-phone if you happen to live in a technically advanced society and tap that against the reader for a tenth of a second.

There is a good reason why many major transit systems are testing the open-payment based systems to replace or compliment their current hodge-podge of independent and non-portable systems. The big catch here is Visa and Mastercard want to be the exclusive card if they are installing the system.
Click to expand...

I'm more than willing to consider an open payment mechanism that is more secure. I do have one question, though: Let's assume that by implementation day, we all have credit and debit cards with embedded smart chips; these are now being rolled out and should be the standard in a few years.

If I swipe my wallet without removing my VISA card, how would the system determine that I want to charge my VISA card and NOT the debit card sitting next to it?

Beyond that, I have no problem with open cards as an addition to PRESTO but it should not be in place or PRESTO, nor used as a reason to delay PRESTO. PRESTO has its flaws (boy, the stories I've heard) but these will eventually get worked out.
 
DavidH said:
If I swipe my wallet without removing my VISA card, how would the system determine that I want to charge my VISA card and NOT the debit card sitting next to it?
Click to expand...

This is something I've often wondered myself. I expect your phone (see various Japanese Nokia models) will activate a single cards information at a time which should be selected prior to tapping.

If New York or Los Angeles replaces their current metrocard with the open-payment mechanism (they've been testing for about as long as Presto has been testing); we can expect every single smart phone to include this type of functionality as the manufacturer cost is only a couple dollars.

If NY, LA, and Toronto implement it; there is a very good chance I won't need a wallet in 5 years.
 
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