Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[nfitz]

And nfitz, I was afraid of what you are saying about the autoload!! The same thing will happen to me unless there is more than $20 on the card. We'll see next time I go to Union.

The trick might be to load some cash at Union Station with the agent there (if the Presto counter is closed, the regular ticket sellers can do it). So that your balance is just above the limit.

It just such bizarrely bad set-up. What's really bizarre is Accenture wouldn't have pointed out the problem with the design. When I subcontract work to a vendor, and what I tell them doesn't make sense, they tell me, and we make it make sense. Why isn't Accenture doing this ... have they done this type of project before?

 

[Justin10000]

So paying a $6 fee for the convenience of using a fare card is ok, but a small fee for the convenience of being able to use public transit when you have no money isn't?
Presto isn't making it hard for riders... It's simple. Keep your card topped up and you don't have to visit Union Station.

Except it's not even working when even when you keep your card topped. Why defend PRESTO? The design of the system is terrible. Again, I am looking at the card as a normal rider, and the fact that I have to speak to an agent IN person at any station is not convenient. If Accenture was competent at all, they would have set-up the system so a user can resolve any issue over the phone, or online.
Telling someone to "keep your card topped up, or be penalized" is not a great selling point.

Back to bus lady... Driver says no... what does she do then? No transit! Now THATS convenient!

At least she did not pay $6 for a poorly design farecard. Considering the scrutiny transit is under these days, I doubt a driver will deny an old lady entry for being short. I doubt the lady will buy the card, if she heard the stories from people who traveled to Union 3 times, even after their card was topped up. What a terrible way to introduce a fare card! It's not as if PRESTO is innovative, or anything. You would think these companies would have worked the bugs out by now. Jeez. young people are having a frustrating time with this card. I can only imagine an old lady trying to deal with a PRESTO rep!

Yes travelling to Union is going to cost a fare, and yes you actually have to talk to someone... but its a small price to pay for the guarantee that you can use your card once more if for some reason you forget to top it up. Im sure the problem will be fixed in the future, but for now, its still a convenience that I have already had to rely on once.

No, it's a freaking extra FARE! That is not a small price. That is $3 wasted on top on the $6 for a card that barely works. I would be really pissed off, if I topped up my card, and had to pay A CASH FARE to talk to someone to be able to use the money I loaded into the card. Whoever set-up PRESTO is an idiot, and I would not recommend PRESTO to anyone right now. It's a shoddy product.

 

[CDL.TO]

You guys should get together and send your collected stories to The Star or another paper. The word needs to get out there that there are real flaws in the system that need to be accounted for!

 

[Mapleson]

I really fail to see you point, which was premised on Oyster taking about 5 years before it was rolled out significantly, which is just fundamentally wrong. It was pretty much rolled out in about12 months ... and most of the hardware was was running on Day 1. Only the private rail companies lagged significantly

No, my point was that the hardware for Oyster was rolled out, but later expansion kept happening (like TTC for Presto and LO for Oyster). They had the hardware 'Day 1 Operations', but they have incremental improved the software/operational mechanics. That 'Day 1 Operations' happened about 15 months after they started manufacturing the card reader machines. Did you look at the Wikipedia timeline's I referenced? Oyster has come a long way towards being user-friendly over the decade. Or do you maintain that everything available in 2010 was available in 2003? In 2008, five years after Oyster was rolled out, were significant improvements to the breath and usefulness of the Oyster system still being undertaken? That was my point.

The trick might be to load some cash at Union Station with the agent there (if the Presto counter is closed, the regular ticket sellers can do it). So that your balance is just above the limit.

It just such bizarrely bad set-up. What's really bizarre is Accenture wouldn't have pointed out the problem with the design. When I subcontract work to a vendor, and what I tell them doesn't make sense, they tell me, and we make it make sense. Why isn't Accenture doing this ... have they done this type of project before?

I think it's pretty obvious the testing protocol wasn't very through, but the "basic" operations seem to work fine, by absence of complaints. I would say the 'features' involving money was done by a seperate group. Accenture should be addressing these problems, now we know they know about them. We can't say if they knew before and did nothing, which is neglegent. Not looking is just incompetance, which I'm willing to forgive if they can respond quickly (like 6-9 months to add payg to Oyster) and throughly.

Whatever they are doing though, they should announce it.

 

[nfitz]

In 2008, five years after Oyster was rolled out, were significant improvements to the breath and usefulness of the Oyster system still being undertaken? That was my point.

There are certainly improvements ... but for anyone who just uses London Transport it has been pretty simple since 2004.

I think it's pretty obvious the testing protocol wasn't very through, but the "basic" operations seem to work fine, by absence of complaints.

Absence of complaints? Working fine? Your kidding, right? Anyone whose card goes negative is screwed, and can't fix on-line or over the phone! And there's lots of other major problems that have been documented. When I talk to them on the phone they tell me that a lot of people have been having problems and they are getting a lot of complaints, and they are aware that mistakes were made.

The testing program for Presto was clearly badly designed, and failed to test real-world situations. Oyster gets points there, with full deployment of the hardware, and system-wide testing for months before a client ever got their hands on a card.

 

[Mapleson]

There are certainly improvements ... but for anyone who just uses London Transport it has been pretty simple since 2004.

Absence of complaints? Working fine? Your kidding, right? Anyone whose card goes negative is screwed, and can't fix on-line or over the phone! And there's lots of other major problems that have been documented. When I talk to them on the phone they tell me that a lot of people have been having problems and they are getting a lot of complaints, and they are aware that mistakes were made.

The testing program for Presto was clearly badly designed, and failed to test real-world situations. Oyster gets points there, with full deployment of the hardware, and system-wide testing for months before a client ever got their hands on a card.

I meant the other 99% of the system the "basic" functions that do not involve money, such as fare deductions (no complaints about double fares), and journey beginning/ending (no complaints about over fare), and documentation (no complaints of not getting a discount after 35 trips). If you know of people that have been complaining about these things, I'll withdraw the comment.

I don't see the point of crucifying a fledgling system, which admittedly has several limitating operational design flaws, but hasn't had the opertunity to correct them. I guess they should have made PRESTO "Day 1" in 2016 when the TTC might have a machine balance reader and made it equally convient to everyone and not convient to anyone until then.

 

[nfitz]

I meant the other 99% of the system the "basic" functions that do not involve money, such as fare deductions (no complaints about double fares), and journey beginning/ending (no complaints about over fare), and documentation (no complaints of not getting a discount after 35 trips). If you know of people that have been complaining about these things, I'll withdraw the comment.

Ah ... yes, I admit I haven't heard much about those kind of problems. But it took me about 2 months to get my card to work ... I haven't had much opportunity to test yet, as neither of the stations I use frequently on GO have been activated.

I did have one a bit along those lines ... on one of my trips to Union the GO Staff offered to enable my default ... Danforth-Union (actually Danforth-Exhibition, but they said they couldn't do Exhiibition yet). They a) said that it wouldn't make a difference if it was Union or Exhibition because it's the same fare zone (my suspicion is that the default trip won't be recognised at Exhibition because it's set to Union). b) they also implied I could start using it straight away for Union to Danforth trips ... but Presto has said GO inspection staff won't like that ... not sure if I should trust GO or Presto on GO policy ... though these are just implementation problems).

I don't see the point of crucifying a fledgling system, which admittedly has several limitating operational design flaws, but hasn't had the opertunity to correct them. I guess they should have made PRESTO "Day 1" in 2016 when the TTC might have a machine balance reader and made it equally convient to everyone and not convient to anyone until then.

I'm not crucifying ... I'm merely pointing out the failures in the implementation. The biggest problem was a lack of testing. They locked down the testing so tight, that only a few commuters based in Burlington/Oakville ever tried it out ... and they just didn't encounter the real-world problems that that would have occurred if a less stratified test-group had been used.

 

[Dan416]

All these issues are really making me NOT want to get a Presto card. Not that I can use it anyway, seeing as I only ever take GO Buses and they're not equipped for it.

 

[Tuscani01]

A
I'm not crucifying ... I'm merely pointing out the failures in the implementation. The biggest problem was a lack of testing. They locked down the testing so tight, that only a few commuters based in Burlington/Oakville ever tried it out ... and they just didn't encounter the real-world problems that that would have occurred if a less stratified test-group had been used.

Actually the system was tested by more than a small group from Burlington/Oakville. It was tested before that in Mississauga, where 500 people were given Presto cards to use for over a year. The second test was between Oakville/Burlington and Toronto, and the second part of that test is where the system was also rolled out for the general public to join.

The problem being faced right now by many is a TTC issue. Balance checkers, and training for TTC employees at every TTC station with Presto would clear up the majority of the issues people face now. For now, there is a minor inconvenience... but its not that bad. I've been using my card for almost 3 months now and have only gone to Union once to solve a problem. The card has been a great convenience for me and will only become more convenient as more stations and transit modes become equipped.

And for Justin10000, I saw a guy get turned away from the 32 Eglinton West bus today for not having the full fare. He was told to get off the bus. Its not a hypothetical situation.

 

[RedRocket191]

I would like to know how many Oakville Transit, Burlington Transit and GO users are having issues.

I haven't heard anything, but I'm waiting until I do to pass judgement.

 

[nfitz]

The problem being faced right now by many is a TTC issue.

How is either the problem of having to go in person to clear a negative balance, rather than doing it on-line or on the phone; or the Autoload not working unless you set the initial threashold below the current balance anything to do with TTC?

All these issues are really making me NOT want to get a Presto card. Not that I can use it anyway, seeing as I only ever take GO Buses and they're not equipped for it.

If you only take GO buses, and don't use TTC or any other local transit, then there is no point until then. Best thing to do is wait until what you take is using it. I'm sure by then use beta-testers will have worked out many of the bugs

 

[RedRocket191]

On count 1 it's not an issue for GO users because they will pass a Presto agency at both ends of their ride. TTC riders, on the other hand, will not.

Just sayin'

 

[nfitz]

On count 1 it's not an issue for GO users because they will pass a Presto agency at both ends of their ride. TTC riders, on the other hand, will not.

Just sayin'

Presto has been fully implemented on both Burlington Transit and Oakville Transit. I'm sure many if not most trips on these agencies don't start or stop at a Presto agency.

 

[Justin10000]

And for Justin10000, I saw a guy get turned away from the 32 Eglinton West bus today for not having the full fare. He was told to get off the bus. Its not a hypothetical situation.

And I saw a guy tell a subway operator he only had $2.85, and the operator waved him through. Still better than spending $6 on a farecard with so many problems.

 

[nfitz]

And I saw a guy tell a subway operator he only had $2.85, and the operator waved him through. Still better than spending $6 on a farecard with so many problems.

The problems will be fixed ... I can't imagine that by the time that this is rolled out TTC-wide these issues will still exist. Presto is talking about fixing the issues now. And they have been waiving the $6 as they roll out. If you hand in your GO 10-ride ticket or monthly pass, they transfer the existing value to a PrestoCard, and waive the $6 charge. Presumably there will be similar offers for TTC customers when it is implemented ... at least for those with annual subscriptions, etc.