Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Tuscani01]

What surprises me is that the TTC activated a half deployed system. Why not get it fully operational and then launch it?

Because people like me, who don't mind carrying a token around just in case, would complain about not being able to use Presto despite it being partially installed.

I really don't get all these complaints. It's so clear: carry proper fare media until it's 100% installed. Either use Presto, continue using tokens/passes, or use both. I have zero complaints about this. It's not difficult at all.

 

[TransitBart]

People like to complain. It's a human thing.

It is disappointing; however, to see that people who are in favour of something - in this case public transit - have become cynics and critics of the same.

In all projects, there are limits on two precious resources; time, and capital. In all walks of life, these are constant constraints: private business, non-profit businesses and government. In each case, there is a need to balance what is desirable - rolling our PRESTO with faregates in 69 stations and 2200 vehicles simultaneously one Monday morning - and what is possible - rolling it out in bits and pieces. Sometimes I think the crowd here forgets that. The same crowd who is critiquing the Spadina subway extension as overbuilt would be criticizing the cost of the PRESTO rollout had we trained 2000 installers who all would have worked one night each to get PRESTO up and running on 2000 vehicles overnight.

Perfect is the enemy of good. Or sometimes good enough.

Two. Sometimes in life, after a long period of stability - 60 years of aluminium discs and paper tickets for fare payment - is followed by a period of instability and change before the next stable plateau is reached. The next stable plateau is full PRESTO rollout. Absolute cowardice on the part of the TTC, the city, Metrolinx and the provincial government is holding back METROPASS functionality. We are in the unstable interegnum between new and old. The next stable endpoint is absolutely clear. There will be some inconveniences along the way. In any major transition, this is normal.

Too bad that instead of demonstrating leadership and getting out front with a political statement of support for the TTC - during this period of transition - that the politicians are all smiling like grinning idiots at ribbon cutting ceremonies and parking lot announcements.

"I'd just like to say that Andy Byford and his management team have our full support during this challenging time of running the full system, dealing with major heat and construction challenges, contractor failures on vehicle delivery and major upgrades to the fare taking system. Together, the projects underway represent the greatest changes to the system since the opening of the Bloor Danforth subway in 1966. It is a pleasure to work with Andy and his team of experienced change managers." We are in for the long haul and we look forward to working together to resolve the public transit challenges Toronto faces.

Mayor Tory and council - are you up to it?

urbantoronto forum members - are you? It's very easy to make comments from the cheap seats.

 

[nfitz]

that's for the new fare gates Presto will, technically be avale system wide by the end of this year because of the retrofitted turnstiles which will be converted next year.

It's also always been the schedule for the buses by beginning of 2017.

So subways and buses .. that only leaves streetcars, which were finished on time for beginning of 2016.

I imagine you'll be eating those words. Everywhere by Dec 31, 2016? That's 95 working days from now. I call BS.

I'm merely repeating TTC's words, still on TTC's website. So it won't be me eating them. Though let's be clear - all stations and buses. It's been clear for a long time that some of the secondary entrances won't have Presto until about July 2017, but all stations should have a reader somewhere.

Some stations - the Sheppard line, SRT, and a few on Danforth - aren't getting Presto until next year either.

January 1st next year ... unless there's been a schedule shift I'm unaware of - which wouldn't particularly surprise me.


Still, buses seem to be going well. Line 1 is mostly underway except 3 or 4 Yonge stations. Line 2 is underway west of Broadview, except Castle Frank. Presumably the next push is those 3-4 Yonge stations and the 9 missing Danforth/Bloor stations. That only leaves 3 Sheppard stations and 4 Line 3 Scarborough stations. They should be close at least.

Personally, I'm not going to be losing much sleep if McCowan station doesn't go active until January 14th. if all the buses are done, and all Line 1 and 2 are finished.

I wouldn't be surprised though, if they've failed to think up a protocol for the TTC in York Region or TTC Express buses until then (though you can use Presto now on the Express buses - but you need to pay the other half in a different manner).

 

[PinkLucy]

Because people like me, who don't mind carrying a token around just in case, would complain about not being able to use Presto despite it being partially installed.

I really don't get all these complaints. It's so clear: carry proper fare media until it's 100% installed. Either use Presto, continue using tokens/passes, or use both. I have zero complaints about this. It's not difficult at all.

Where it's annoying is when they put replacement buses on routes that have been Presto enabled for some time(509, 511 for example). It would be nice if they used Presto-enabled replacement buses. The drivers are pretty good about just letting you on in those cases.

 

[crs1026]

Once TTC got on the band wagon, I would have to say the rollout has progressed at a very impressive pace. Subway installations do seem to be falling behind - a couple schedules back, Royal York and Old Mill were originally to have been done by June, still aren't done. Work there seems to be an on and off proposition. I suspect the later stations will be affected. Bus installations in the west end happened very quickly.

I do think we need to cut TTC some slack for the temporary annoyances. I'm surprised how hard it is to break some old habits (like using a token and not thinking to ask for a transfer, when I will be transferring to another route inside a fare paid area - never needed one before POP) but time will fix that. However, the reality is I am benefiting from the 2-hour transfer rule at times. It's a fair trade.

The only annoyance that concerns me for the longer term is the short-turned street car scenario.

- Paul

 

[DSC]

Where it's annoying is when they put replacement buses on routes that have been Presto enabled for some time(509, 511 for example). It would be nice if they used Presto-enabled replacement buses. The drivers are pretty good about just letting you on in those cases.

Though I agree it's annoying it really is a change-over problem that will end fairly soon. Buses are not assigned to specific routes and they are apparently converting the bus fleet garage by garage (and doing so pretty fast in my opinion, working east to west) so I can see it would complicate an already complicated situation if they were to try to reserve certain (Presto-equipped) buses for streetcar replacement. Patience is a virtue, and one we need more of in Toronto in general and UT in particular!

 

[Jonny5]

A transaction I put through at 5pm Sunday has still not generated even an email acknowledgement. I understand processing of transactions was shunted into a queue while the system was down for maintenance, but the system came back up this morning. This is a long time to have a backlog of transactions.

I have to wonder what will happen if they do this when the TTC is fully on board? Will there be a backlog of hundreds of thousands of transactions left siting for days because of a weekend upgrade?

 

[many7695]

Has anybody been able to tap to load money on the presto reload machines, can't get my iPhone or my card to to work on them, does it have to be in certain spot or direction for it to work

 

[vaas]

Has anybody been able to tap to load money on the presto reload machines, can't get my iPhone or my card to to work on them, does it have to be in certain spot or direction for it to work

You mean the green boxes just outside the paid-area? Thats my primary mode of topping up and I've never had issues tapping my debit card (magnetic strip facing the machine).

 

[many7695]

You mean the green boxes just outside the paid-area? Thats my primary mode of topping up and I've never had issues tapping my debit card (magnetic strip facing the machine).

Yes those machines, it's the second time at queens park station no matter which direction I put my card or my phone it doesn't communicate with presto. Both times I inserted my card to reload, which I don't like to do in such public area

 

[Jonny5]

Yes those machines, it's the second time at queens park station no matter which direction I put my card or my phone it doesn't communicate with presto. Both times I inserted my card to reload, which I don't like to do in such public area

I've also had no problem with tapping, both credit and debit.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Subway installations do seem to be falling behind - a couple schedules back, Royal York and Old Mill were originally to have been done by June, still aren't done. Work there seems to be an on and off proposition. I suspect the later stations will be affected. Bus installations in the west end happened very quickly.

I think that has to do with some delays in receiving the new gates from the manufacturer in europe.

 

[nfitz]

I think that has to do with some delays in receiving the new gates from the manufacturer in europe.

Oh dear, are they coming in Brexit-only?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Oh dear, are they coming in Brexit-only?

I'm not not sure where they are coming from I just saw that in a tweet from Brad ross when someone asked why it was taking so long at one of the stations. I think it was said somewhere that they are the a version of the ones used on the london underground I think?"

 

[steveintoronto]

However, the reality is I am benefiting from the 2-hour transfer rule at times. It's a fair trade.

It's a huge plus, especially when walking between two routes that don't intersect, but some drivers appear to not be aware of the rule. For instance, took Donlands bus down to most southerly Leslie St bus stop, walked down to and along the waterfront with dog for almost an hour, Cherry St bus (or its latest incarnation) waiting at foot of Cherry St, no Presto machine on-board, so presented transfer.

Driver asks: "What's this?". I explained, showed Presto Card, (even though she had no way of reading it) and told her about the 'two hour window'. She'd never heard of it! I think she knew she was in for a dispute if she questioned me, and TTC policy is to not argue now, if I'm correct. "Oh...OK". Dog and I were the only passengers on the bus for major blocks. Took it to end of route at Old Fort York, walked up to Dundas and Ossington from there, two hour window expired, so tapped on streetcar for last leg to near Dundas West (dog was no longer wet, too hot to walk him more distance). The second fare was fair!

I took the route in full knowledge that it would be permissible by the rules, and it's a good thing for both parties. People will take the TTC knowing that they aren't going to be penalized by paying multiple fares for reasonable stop-overs. And TTC gets fares they normally wouldn't, at a time of day with low ridership.

In effect, you're buying time, not convolutions, to get where you're headed. We all benefit. And the dog loved it, he swam most of the distance along Cherry Beach, and played in Trinity Bellwoods Park in the off-leash area, and got soaked again. I called that "civilized".