News   Mar 28, 2024
 142     1 
News   Mar 28, 2024
 591     0 
News   Mar 28, 2024
 365     0 

Metrolinx/GO Georgetown Corridor Project

@ Prometheus The Supremo and everyone.

I think you're missing the point...

The opposition to this project hasn't seemed to care much about what colour the trains are or where they enter/leave the corridor. They hear "400 trains" and become concerned by the volume.

I really think it breaks down to two questions:

Will there be 400 trains on opening day? [NO]

and

Will there every be 400 trains in the corridor? [Only if the demand in 2031 warrants it].

When the construction is done service will run at a particular frequency and then gradually becomes more and more frequent as demand increases and equipment becomes available. It might start at every X minutes and get better from there [addressing unimaginative2's point], but we're not talking about trains every 3 minutes anytime soon if ever.
 
Although I disagree with the Westonians, I agree that the timeframe is irrelevant. Once the line is up and running they'll get 400 trains a day. It is relevant if it happens in 2031 or 2032 or 2040?
 
Although I disagree with the Westonians, I agree that the timeframe is irrelevant. Once the line is up and running they'll get 400 trains a day. It is relevant if it happens in 2031 or 2032 or 2040?

Well, the criticism has always been on "400 diesel trains". By the time we get to 400 trains I think it's reasonable to assume that it will long have been electric.
 
If it does hit 400 trains a day, it'll be hard to achieve that without having it electrified.

i don't know. with six tracks?
 
With all due respect, the "I don't believe them" argument can be used against anything, which is why I don't consider it to be a valid argument.
"The Transit City LRTs will provide subway-like speeds at a fraction of the cost, and will grace the beautifully reconstructed avenues they will run on" :rolleyes:
 
The 400 trains is possible as it is in reference to the southern most portion of the corridor (south of mile 3 on the line which is just south of Dundas street). Metrolinx is planning for 7 to 8 tracks as this portion will see the converge of all-day bi-directional service on the Georgetown, (Kitchener-Waterloo by then), Milton and Barrie line's. As well as peak service only on a future Bolton line.

By 2030 - 20 years from now 30 minute bi-directional frequency should be running on the Georgetown/Kitchener line as well as the Milton line. Train would run at this frequency for 20 hrs a day, 5am to 1pm. This equates to 4 trains per hour and 80 trips per day.

The Barrie line might not run as frequent but in least it will see hourly service. Which for 20 hrs a day equates to 40 train trips.

During the rush hour trains would depart every 10 minutes to Union on the Milton line & Georgetown/Kitchener for say 2 and a half hours in the morning and then back again in the evening. This equates to 15 train trips, minus 5 already accounted for by the bi-directional trains. So its an additional 10 trips in the morning and evening. Which add's 20 trips to each line in total.

On the Barrie line you'd have slightly less addition peak service and so we'll add 10 train trips in total.

The Bolton line would probably still only see peak service anywhere between 3 to 7 trains a day each way. Realistically lets say 5 at most.

This gives you;
Milton 80+20=100 trips
Georgetown/Kitchener 80+20=100 trips
Barrie 40+10=50 trips
Bolton 10 trips

Total train trips for GO service alone = 260!

The ARL blue22 service is to run in 15 minute bi-directional frequencies for an estimated 18 hrs of the day. This equates to 144 train trips.


VIA currently runs only 3 trips each way with a proposal to double that in the near future. This will equate to 12 trips in the corridor. It unknown what VIA's long term plans are. Its likely that service will increase by 2030. A very modest amount would be a 50% increase which will equate to 18 train trips.

There is also a relatively negligible amount of freights running on the line. 1 CP and 1 CN train going down to the portland’s per day to switch out industries and back up for a total of 4 trips. These movements, if still necessary in the future would occur at night.

This gives us;
GO = 260 train trips
ARL = 144 train trips
VIA = 18 train trips
CN/CP = 4 train trips
Total train trips = 426


Its definitely possible with 7 to 8 tracks. There will be 2 tracks for each corridor to allow for trains to go each direction with no conflicts.
3 or 4 for the Georgetown/Kitchener line for GO and ARL use. 2 for the Galt sub/Milton line and 2 for the Newmarket sub/Barrie line.

Cab signaling may be require to allow for decreased train spacing, however its implementation does not require electrification. Speed's along this portion of the line can't increase significantly in any case as trains have to slow down before entering the Union Station Rail Corridor. And when leaving Union station speeds are restricted due to track curvature and gradients (future grade separation at Strachan with 2% gradient)

So it is possible without electrification.
But desirable? Far from it.
 
what article is that a response to?

It was in response to this article which clearly states " 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown"

http://northpeel.com/brampton/news/article/76645

Now, before you push this aside as just a local paper getting it wrong.....read the line in the Star article which says......"...risks of running 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown."

So the person's question was valid as the media were reporting 400 trains going through Brampton and Georgetown and he was just wondering how that is possible.

As to the other suggestions on here that if you do the count at a particular point on the line you might get to that number.......doesn't that miss the point of the Weston groups opposition? If that point is not anywhere near them why are they concerned? As an example.....Milton trains don't go through Weston do they? (I might be mistaken but don't the Milton and Georgetown lines sorta converse around Bloor?) If they don't, why are they factored into any environmental assessement of Georgetown line expansion?

If the opposition is just to diesel on a philisophical basis, lets include the trains on the Lakeshore East line too ;)
 
It was in response to this article which clearly states " 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown"

http://northpeel.com/brampton/news/article/76645

Now, before you push this aside as just a local paper getting it wrong.....read the line in the Star article which says......"...risks of running 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown."

So the person's question was valid as the media were reporting 400 trains going through Brampton and Georgetown and he was just wondering how that is possible.

As to the other suggestions on here that if you do the count at a particular point on the line you might get to that number.......doesn't that miss the point of the Weston groups opposition? If that point is not anywhere near them why are they concerned? As an example.....Milton trains don't go through Weston do they? (I might be mistaken but don't the Milton and Georgetown lines sorta converse around Bloor?) If they don't, why are they factored into any environmental assessement of Georgetown line expansion?

If the opposition is just to diesel on a philisophical basis, lets include the trains on the Lakeshore East line too ;)

Well put. Mind you Westonites are really only concerned with what's happening in Weston not the rest of the GTA. The Clean Train Coalition OTOH, if it is more than just a local group should be pushing for electrification of all the lines in Toronto. Are they?
 
Well put. Mind you Westonites are really only concerned with what's happening in Weston not the rest of the GTA. The Clean Train Coalition OTOH, if it is more than just a local group should be pushing for electrification of all the lines in Toronto. Are they?

Do any of us know who the clean train coalition is? I just assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was an offshoot of the Weston group that was looking to change/derail the expansion based on electrification as opposed to their earlier concerns....if I am wrong I apologize.

We really (IMO) should be concerned about the air quality not the source. So if delaying this rail expansion ends up with us getting rail expansion "X" number of years later but now we have clean trains....but during those "X" years the continued over-reliance on cars put far more polution in the air than the delta between the clean trains and the not so clean trains.....what is/was the value of the clean trains?
 
It was in response to this article which clearly states " 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown"

http://northpeel.com/brampton/news/article/76645

Now, before you push this aside as just a local paper getting it wrong.....read the line in the Star article which says......"...risks of running 400 diesel trains daily to Brampton and Georgetown."

So the person's question was valid as the media were reporting 400 trains going through Brampton and Georgetown and he was just wondering how that is possible.

http://www.thestar.com/article/697559

well, both papers got it wrong. looks like one paper made a mistake and the other used the erroneous article as a source. or maybe both papers used an erroneous press release as a source?

what are you trying to prove? that toronto's medical officer of health made a mistake or the newspapers made a mistake?
 
http://www.thestar.com/article/697559

well, both papers got it wrong. looks like one paper made a mistake and the other used the erroneous article as a source. or maybe both papers used an erroneous press release as a source?

what are you trying to prove? that toronto's medical officer of health made a mistake or the newspapers made a mistake?

I am not trying "to prove" anything. I posted a link to what I thought was an interesting and reasonably thought out letter to the editor in a local paper.....someone responded with a curt "what is this guy responding to" so I posted what he was responding to...that's all. I think his point is that the media is wrong if they think you can/will see 400 trains (diesel or otherwise) going through Brampton.

I only posted the Star bit because there is a sorta general societal tendency to dismiss papers like the guardian as local yokels who are prone to mistakes (which is true ;) ) but in this case much more respected/widely read media had printed the same stuff!
 
i don't know. with six tracks?

If you run 5 minutes between trains for 20 hours, 12 x 6 = 72 X 20 = 1440

If you look at 2 hours at peak: 72 X 2 = 144 or 288 for both peak.

If you drop 5 to 3, you then get 20 x 6 = 120 x2 = 240 or 480 for both peak.

You are not going to have these types of service until after 2031 unless there is an oil storage with cost at $5/lt

You will get down to 10-15 service by 2031.

I love how this group arrived at 400 trains
 

Back
Top