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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

well then again if one thinks logically through this there is a method to their madness. These cars from alstoms are earmarked for finch anyways, and if bbr's order does in the end go through to completion they can
use it for hurontario which has no order for cars yet. If you factor in inflation and whatnot by the time they come about ordering the cars the price may very well be not that far off from what they paid now.
Sure the method used is less than desirable, but in the end you guys have to admit that there is now enough redundancy to see through hurontario as well. If you look at the dollar figures, it looks really bad now because bbr
undercut them initially by significant amounts and took a huge gamble that they would make it up via mexico. admittedly Alstom still has to really establish themselves in canada but at least theres no shady practices like our preffered
supplier is doing now. I bet we spent or will spend just as much money making up for delays
 
cplchanb said:
well then again if one thinks logically through this there is a method to their madness. These cars from alstoms are earmarked for finch anyways, and if bbr's order does in the end go through to completion they can
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I think it's a bit perceptions of Metrolinx to assume that we want multiple types of vehicles running in Toronto. If they relly want to run these precious new cras that they are buying for no reason they should take them erewrew. Metrolinx has no clue what they are doing and they refuse to answer to anyone and make all of their decisions without talking to the public. And when they do they feed them garbage that they believe because they want to believe it.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Why is it that people complained about Toronto sole sourcing the contract for the Toronto Rocket trains but yet poel are ok with Metrolinx wasting money and sole sourcing a second company to build something just in case a company that is trying to work with them fails because Metrolinx is acting like Kindergarten children in a sandbox.
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https://stevemunro.ca/2006/09/03/the-bombardier-subway-cars-how-much-do-they-really-cost/
Finally, Stintz invoked the Bellamy Commission report on the city’s computer leasing scandal as justification for always going to public tender. Chair Moscoe stomped on that claim with a long quote from Madame Justice Bellamy making clear that she recognized specific cases where sole sourcing was appropriate and in the city’s interest. In particular, Justice Bellamy recognized that price is not the only measure on which a contract might be awarded both for reasons of quality and in order to promote other municipal goals.
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At the time of the TR tender, Bombardier were not in the middle of a massive faceplant in their handling of an existing contract. Metrolinx is doing now, by requesting that Alstom supply some vehicles, what I and others have been suggesting for some time - ensuring that the Finch LRT is not cancelled because Bombardier cannot produce cars at the necessary rates in the necessary timeframe (to the necessary quality standards, given recent TTC news).
 
dowlingm said:
Metrolinx is doing now, by requesting that Alstom supply some vehicles, what I and others have been suggesting for some time - ensuring that the Finch LRT is not cancelled because Bombardier cannot produce cars at the necessary rates in the necessary timeframe (to the necessary quality standards, given recent TTC news).
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Nope I compllery diagare it ahs nothing to do with Bombardier and all Metrolinx dragging their feet because Sheppard and the Scarborough RT conversion were canceled because of City council. If both were still being built they would be undergoing testing now instead we are having to wait until the crosstown is fished. IOn had to strike it own deal with Bombardier because Metrolinx was acting like a kindergarten kid and not wanting to start testing the Flexity Freedoms because they had no where to start testing them. Alos Metrolinx doesn't need as many of them any more because of all of the cancelled projects in the city of toronto but they are too cheap to pay for changes to the contract.

Alos the current issues with the new Streetcars are common problems with any new vehicle but the new media want to blow it out of proportion because of the late deliveries on them.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Nope I compllery diagare it ahs nothing to do with Bombardier and all Metrolinx dragging their feet because Sheppard and the Scarborough RT conversion were canceled because of City council. If both were still being built they would be undergoing testing now instead we are having to wait until the crosstown is fished. IOn had to strike it own deal with Bombardier because Metrolinx was acting like a kindergarten kid and not wanting to start testing the Flexity Freedoms because they had no where to start testing them. Alos Metrolinx doesn't need as many of them any more because of all of the cancelled projects in the city of toronto but they are too cheap to pay for changes to the contract.

Alos the current issues with the new Streetcars are common problems with any new vehicle but the new media want to blow it out of proportion because of the late deliveries on them.
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Uhhhh...I dont think being 3 years late and STILL nonoperational constitutes as a COMMON problem. Ask Ion how long their new car has been sitting in the lot without the software to even have it run forwards.
The ML car is also without software as well. Are you that naive to excuse bbr's inability to even have the software for the prototype 3 years past its agreed timeframe? Even if ML changed specs surely they couldve had the ability
to concurrently develop the software to run it. I'm pretty sure their change in specs does not drastically affect the basic source codes to the point where they still havent even finalised it to just make it roll forwards and backwards.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Nope I compllery diagare it ahs nothing to do with Bombardier and all Metrolinx dragging their feet because Sheppard and the Scarborough RT conversion were canceled because of City council. If both were still being built they would be undergoing testing now instead we are having to wait until the crosstown is fished. IOn had to strike it own deal with Bombardier because Metrolinx was acting like a kindergarten kid and not wanting to start testing the Flexity Freedoms because they had no where to start testing them. Alos Metrolinx doesn't need as many of them any more because of all of the cancelled projects in the city of toronto but they are too cheap to pay for changes to the contract.

Alos the current issues with the new Streetcars are common problems with any new vehicle but the new media want to blow it out of proportion because of the late deliveries on them.
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That is some mighty tasty koolaid by the looks of things.

1. Waterloo car 2 is now late. Hard to blame evil Metrolinx for that.
2. The TTC themselves - not the media - have acknowledged that the MTBF target will not be met. So now Bombardier are doubly delinquent in delivery rate and quality.

Will Alstom get it wrong too? Quite possibly. But if they don't, then light rail will be replacing buses rather than condemning Finch Westers of years of the same, and built infrastructure won't be lying disused and giving future light rail projects a tougher time getting done.
 
Ok seriously can we just stop with all of the Bombardier bashing on this thread it's just getting old. Personally I think metrolix has no idea what it's doing and they just want to blame others. If you really think that Bombardier is to blame for everything then you are as bad as them. Metrolix should be fired and disbanded before they waste any more public money.
 
dowlingm said:
That is some mighty tasty koolaid by the looks of things.

1. Waterloo car 2 is now late. Hard to blame evil Metrolinx for that.
2. The TTC themselves - not the media - have acknowledged that the MTBF target will not be met. So now Bombardier are doubly delinquent in delivery rate and quality.

Will Alstom get it wrong too? Quite possibly. But if they don't, then light rail will be replacing buses rather than condemning Finch Westers of years of the same, and built infrastructure won't be lying disused and giving future light rail projects a tougher time getting done.
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Well, at least hopefully this time the specs will have been finalised so bashers cant use that as an excuse to take a swipe at ML. I think Alstom, having learned from what theyve seen from bbr wont make the same mistakes as building an untested product in an untested factory using untested building methods.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Ok seriously can we just stop with all of the Bombardier bashing on this thread it's just getting old. Personally I think metrolix has no idea what it's doing and they just want to blame others. If you really think that Bombardier is to blame for everything then you are as bad as them. Metrolix should be fired and disbanded before they waste any more public money.
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well until we see the final product finally ready and on the track in revenue service without problems haters going to hate from both sides.
 
cplchanb said:
Well, at least hopefully this time the specs will have been finalised so bashers cant use that as an excuse to take a swipe at ML. I think Alstom, having learned from what theyve seen from bbr wont make the same mistakes as building an untested product in an untested factory using untested building methods.
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Yet they are doing just that in Ottawa right now. I'm just curious as to wear this new plant they are supposed to be building for the Metrolinx order is supposed to be going? If it's so much of a priority for Metrolinx why haven't they started building it now?
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Yet they are doing just that in Ottawa right now. I'm just curious as to wear this new plant they are supposed to be building for the Metrolinx order is supposed to be going? If it's so much of a priority for Metrolinx why haven't they started building it now?
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I believe they had shut down the plant used for the ottawa order; I wonder if they can restart it.
 
cplchanb said:
Uhhhh...I dont think being 3 years late and STILL nonoperational constitutes as a COMMON problem. Ask Ion how long their new car has been sitting in the lot without the software to even have it run forwards.
The ML car is also without software as well. Are you that naive to excuse bbr's inability to even have the software for the prototype 3 years past its agreed timeframe? Even if ML changed specs surely they couldve had the ability
to concurrently develop the software to run it. I'm pretty sure their change in specs does not drastically affect the basic source codes to the point where they still havent even finalised it to just make it roll forwards and backwards.
Click to expand...
The problem is we don't actually know what was going on in those there years plus Metrolinx has had a number of projects pushed around and cancelled on them since the original deal was written. Bombrider obviously know this and they may have been taking the time well Metrolinx figured things out. However Metrolinx clearly has no idea what they are doing ass they have only ever had on meeting with the TTC board, who now wants to meat with them again to discus many things. One of them is fare integration and alos who fares will be taken care of with the new subway extension. I am not saying that Bombardier is entirely with out fault in this mater but Metrolinx has shown time and time again that they don't know what they are doing with any of these projects.
 
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