Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[rbt]

Maybe, but i wish for future transit contracts the penalties would be something like 50% of the entire contract. That way whatever is decided on will get built and not cancelled... low cancel fees make everything up for debate.

This is one of the better side-effects of a design+build contract. Since it's a single large tender, the contractor typically has a very large cancellation fee.

The downside is if the cancellation was for a good reason such as the discovery that the tender agreement left a loophole open that allows the contractor to build the line in such a way that it is useless after a short time period; or that they will be using cut + cover on a line like Eglinton which would block 27 major North/South street simultaneously.

 

[Voltz]

Well, from what i heard on the radio this morning, Bombardier are not doing any work on this order. Apparantly, the contract is such that they don't start getting built until the province/ML calls for that but the delay in that happening is, in itself, punishable by penalty.

Bombardier is also getting the penalty for the reduction in orders for the SRT cancellation.

Thanks to political BS, Bombardier is getting a huge payday for doing next to nothing.

 

[Dan416]

I'm glad I'm a Bombardier shareholder.

 

[Palma]

It is just a bit of a headshaker, to me, that we are already paying penalties when none of the facilities/lines we wanted them for were planned to be in service yet. I have heard some, already, blaming this on the change from LRT to subway in Scarborough....but even that was not supposed to be in service at this point.

We are still years away from needing these vehicles but, yet, we are bound by a contract that already sees us paying penalties? Makes no sense.

Who is agreeing to these contracts? For sure the supplier is pushing for this but why is Metrolinx? Another scandal to be investigated

 

[rbt]

Bombardier is also getting the penalty for the reduction in orders for the SRT cancellation.

Thanks to political BS, Bombardier is getting a huge payday for doing next to nothing.

Not entirely nothing. Bombardier would have entered into agreements to buy parts from dozens of manufacturers to be shipped to Ontario. If they find a local (Ontario) replacement buyer for the parts; then it's nothing.

Otherwise, they'll be paying penalties to their own suppliers for cancelling/changing the orders.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Not entirely nothing. Bombardier would have entered into agreements to buy parts from dozens of manufacturers to be shipped to Ontario. If they find a local (Ontario) replacement buyer for the parts; then it's nothing.

Otherwise, they'll be paying penalties to their own suppliers for cancelling/changing the orders.

Given the Gong Show that is Toronto rapid transit development, why would any supplier agree to contracts that did not contain hefty cancellation provisions?

 

[rbt]

Given the Gong Show that is Toronto rapid transit development, why would any supplier agree to contracts that did not contain hefty cancellation provisions?

These agreements were in place before transit became quite so political; but yeah, it's standard to ensure the end purchaser covers any costs you as a supplier may have.

 

[TOareaFan]

These agreements were in place before transit became quite so political; but yeah, it's standard to ensure the end purchaser covers any costs you as a supplier may have.

Yes and the agreements/penalties cover more than just the hard costs....what some people see as inordinate profits built into cancellation clauses are really just compensation for lost "opportunity" costs. If Bormbardier had not slotted the TTC/ML into those delivery slots they could have gone after other contracts that would have, presumably, produced profits.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Think it is time to rename this thread to:

Metrolinx: Flexity Freedom Light Rail Vehicle Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

since it would be used, not just by Transit City, but also with other regional light rail projects.

 

[Duck]

...and Kitchener/Waterloo, too! You can all come to KW in 2 years and go for a ride and see what they're like.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Think it is time to rename this thread to:

Metrolinx: Flexity Freedom Light Rail Vehicle Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

since it would be used, not just by Transit City, but also with other regional light rail projects.

No. This is Urban Toronto. The people living in inferior municipalities can create their own threads on their own, inferior website.

I kid. Rename the thread!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

...and Kitchener/Waterloo, too! You can all come to KW in 2 years and go for a ride and see what they're like.

Are you trying to make us jealous, Duck? Because that's how you get us jealous.

 

[Duck]

Don't worry, we'll get to do all the debug - Toronto will get better trains as a result!

I still really hope there is a bit of truth to the rumour that trains might be tested here as soon as next fall. They are really pushing ahead on the Waterloo Spur section of track, so it seems plausible.

 

[rbt]

Don't worry, we'll get to do all the debug - Toronto will get better trains as a result!

I hope a few of the better TTC staff mechanics go over for a while. Waterloo and Metrolinx staff may not know what to look for for things that might break in 20 years instead of 30 years.

 

[Markster]

I hope a few of the better TTC staff mechanics go over for a while. Waterloo and Metrolinx staff may not know what to look for for things that might break in 20 years instead of 30 years.

That's part of why ION was awarded as a Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain contract for 30 years.
Waterloo Region basically accepted the fact that they don't know anything about ensuring long-term maintenance, and so they've bundled that into the contract. If it breaks in 20 years, the builder is already responsible for the maintenance that results.

Where things get interesting, will be at the 30 year mark, where conceivably they could let it fall apart, and the Region takes over, needing to drastically overhaul the system. I don't know what mechanisms may be in the contract to prevent that, aside from the carrot of operations/maintenance contract renewal.