Mayor John Tory's Toronto

[ttk77]

I'm not very knowledgeable about the relationship between the province and its municipalities. Are we completely at the mercy of provincial whims, or are there things Toronto can to do make life difficult for the provincial government to pressure them into giving us more autonomy?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm not very knowledgeable about the relationship between the province and its municipalities. Are we completely at the mercy of provincial whims, or are there things Toronto can to do make life difficult for the provincial government to pressure them into giving us more autonomy?

Cities are the creatures of the provinces. It has no place in the constitution. Of course, a local politician with charisma and influence can always bend the province to its' will (think - Hazel, RoFo) but that's an exception not a rule.

AoD

 

[ttk77]

I was thinking something more along the lines of the city saying something like this:

"The costs of maintaining the Gardener and DVP are getting too high for Toronto to bear alone. Since the province won't let us impose tolls and the surrounding municipalities don't want to pay their fair share for the use of the roads, to reduce maintenance costs, Toronto will be shutting own the Gardener and DVP on weekends."

Do we have the power to do something like that, and what would be the likely fallout?

 

[salsa]

The mayor is calling out Wynne for hew cowardice. Bravo.

“This represents a stark change from the Premier’s previously held positions on tolls and municipal autonomy — conflicting with her public statements, her statements to me and her government’s own behavior on road pricing. This should be of concern to every municipality in Ontario and it certainly is to me as Mayor of Toronto.”

"This is the latest in a series of paternalistic moves by the province."

"This is not the solution."​

 

[salsa]

The mayor is calling out Wynne for hew cowardice. Bravo.

“This represents a stark change from the Premier’s previously held positions on tolls and municipal autonomy — conflicting with her public statements, her statements to me and her government’s own behavior on road pricing. This should be of concern to every municipality in Ontario and it certainly is to me as Mayor of Toronto.”

"This is the latest in a series of paternalistic moves by the province."

"This is not the solution."​

One more:

 

[Migos]

There is no better way to score political points right now than opposing Wynne on something. Tory is setting himself up nicely for re-election with moves like this.

 

[steveintoronto]

I was thinking something more along the lines of the city saying something like this:

"The costs of maintaining the Gardener and DVP are getting too high for Toronto to bear alone. Since the province won't let us impose tolls and the surrounding municipalities don't want to pay their fair share for the use of the roads, to reduce maintenance costs, Toronto will be shutting own the Gardener and DVP on weekends."

Do we have the power to do something like that, and what would be the likely fallout?

It's a very fine balancing act that must be played by Tory. He has his own agenda to consider, but that may be forced to shift by Wynne's actions. (Which I'm now thinking she had the contingency as an option from day one, she just had to move other fall-backs into play before making her announcement)

"Do we have the power to do something like that"? Absolutely, witness closing it for special events.

"what would be the likely fallout?". lol...It's a very good question, I could think of a few, but the real question is whether Tory has the cajones to do it. Remember, this is his cohort that will be aggrieved. But logic alone may push him into doing something exactly as you suppose.

What is a possibility (hard to gauge how much of one at this point) is the Gardiner refurbishing being put on hold save for emergency patches.

 

[steveintoronto]

One more: [...]

Very interesting. I'm having to take a step back after reading that, make no mistake, I agree with every point, but not so sure how he's going to move from this point on. Does this reinforce his pro-car stance, or does it give him a handy foil to pivot away from it?

Hopefully Trudeau's charisma carries us through.

Errrrr....don't count on it. He's got to take a big step beyond that, and show some mettle.

There is no better way to score political points right now than opposing Wynne on something. Tory is setting himself up nicely for re-election with moves like this.

Not necessarily! Sorry to be the old-man on this, these things often manifest themselves in ways not foreseen when they happen. I suspect he got a 'heads-up' on this days back, and has been working on his retort. Tory knows he has to tread carefully on this, it could either be a gift-horse, or it could be a dragon.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The mayor is calling out Wynne for hew cowardice. Bravo.

“This represents a stark change from the Premier’s previously held positions on tolls and municipal autonomy — conflicting with her public statements, her statements to me and her government’s own behavior on road pricing. This should be of concern to every municipality in Ontario and it certainly is to me as Mayor of Toronto.”
"This is the latest in a series of paternalistic moves by the province."
"This is not the solution."​

Totally true, but just how are you going to move forward with PB? That's a question that has to be asked.

And of course, this also conveniently neglected Tory's own stark changes in previously held positions on tolls himself.

This is totally a case of the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily a friend.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Totally true, but just how are you going to move forward with PB? That's a question that has to be asked.

TorStar has an editorial up on Tory's bad day at the orifice, and Marcus Gee written a scathing piece much the same in the Globe, these all make perfect sense, but the question really is: How do the opposition parties now run with this?

The irony is that Wynne is going to lose as many votes as she gains, albeit vote numbers alone don't tip the election, seats do, and she must be praying that Toronto remains solidly Grit...unless....big if, and it won't be PB that stands to win from this, but the NDP might....*if they change their tune*! Is this a Peterson moment for Ontario?

Wynne has one way to shore up Lib strength in Toronto: *Show* that transit is now on the front burner, and the easiest way, as has been obvious for years, is an econo RER service (15 mins) using existing stock on the Bramalea to Union leg. In lieu of money, she's got to show something else, or she's toast, and rightly so.

Another alternative, and I've yet to see mention of this, but: A minority gov propped up by the NDP, or a coalition with the NDP. In the latter, Wynne would be gone.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Mother Wynne has nothing to worry about in the next election. She will be saved by the '416 fools'

 

[steveintoronto]

Well that's fascinating Juan. There's 44 provincial ridings in Toronto, and 107 in the province. Explain the math...

Edit to Add: There's no shortage of columns and articles lambasting Wynne's doofus dumbass diskshid move, but TorStar's Spurr quotes Keesmaat making a very interesting statement:

She suggested that Toronto should consider taking the province to the Ontario Municipal Board for violating the Growth Plan, although she conceded that she wasn’t certain such a move was possible.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...tackle-gridlock-says-citys-chief-planner.html

Update: Here's confirmation that QP can be taken before the OMB for violation as per Keesmaat's musing:

The Smart Growth for Our Communities Act, 2015 (Bill 73) - In Effect Date and Regulations

The Smart Growth for Our Communities Act, 2015 (Bill 73) received Royal Assent on December 3, 2015.

In Effect Date
The changes to the Development Charges Act and a related regulation came into force on January 1, 2016.

Certain changes to the Planning Act came into force on Royal Assent. These include:

• Subsection 1(2) of the Planning Act has been amended to restrict the ability of ministries other than the Ministry of Municipal Affairs to be added as a party to an Ontario Municipal Board appeal. [...]

• http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page13773.aspx

Here is that section, and the clauses that pertain:

PART I
PROVINCIAL ADMINISTRATION
Provincial interest
2. The Minister, the council of a municipality, a local board, a planning board and the Municipal Board, in carrying out their responsibilities under this Act, shall have regard to, among other matters, matters of provincial interest such as,
[...]
(f) the adequate provision and efficient use of communication, transportation, sewage and water services and waste management systems;
[...]
(l) the protection of the financial and economic well-being of the Province and its municipalities;
[...]
(q) the promotion of development that is designed to be sustainable, to support public transit and to be oriented to pedestrians;

[...]
Limitation
(2) The term “public body” in subsection (1) excludes all ministries of the Province of Ontario except the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing in respect of subsections 17 (24), (36), (40) and (44.1), 22 (7.4), 34 (19) and (24.1), 38 (4), 45 (12), 51 (39), (43), (48) and (52.1) and 53 (19) and (27). 1996, c. 4, s. 1 (4); 2006, c. 23, s. 1 (5); 2015, c. 26, s. 11 (2).
[...]
Exclusion
(4) The Minister may by regulation exclude any board, commission, agency or official of the Province of Ontario from the definition of “public body” set out in subsection (1) in respect of the provisions referred to in subsection (2). 1996, c. 4, s. 1 (4).
[...]

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p13#BK4

I suspect that many at City Hall are pizzed enough to get a legal opinion on this. At the least, there are facets that would pitch Wynne against her own ministers.

 

[Jasmine18]

I wonder what were the liberals doing with the extra gas tax money for 12 years?

(buying votes)

 

[steveintoronto]

I wonder what were the liberals doing with the extra gas tax money for 12 years?

(buying votes)

All the parties "buy votes". "Action Canada" ring any bells? "Conserve Ontario"? That besides, it's a very good question. Here's a blurb from QP for 2014:

Quick Facts

• Ontario shares two cents per litre of provincial gas tax revenues with municipalities to expand and improve public transit.
• With this year’s allocation, the Ontario government has committed $3.1 billion in gas tax funding since 2004.
• The Ontario government made the funding for its Gas Tax Program permanent in 2013 to help municipalities improve transit.
• One bus takes up to 40 vehicles off the road, and keeps 25 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions out of the atmosphere each year.
• In 2013, there was an increase of more than 204 million trips on municipal transit systems, compared to 2003 — equivalent to removing approximately 170-million car trips on roads.

Background Information

• Gas Tax Funding by Municipality

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2014/11/gas-tax-funding-fuels-transit-growth.html

Two cents out of 14.7 cents is a pittance. Even doubling that (as Wynne now claims) is still only a fraction.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And that 14.7¢ has been 14.¢ since 1992. No adjusting for inflation.