LCBO / The Beer Store

[gei]

We pay WAY too much for alcohol, period. I mean I know in Canada we pay too much for everything in general, but our liquor prices are absolutely outrageous. When I can get a bottle of Crown Royal, made here in Canada, for significanly cheaper half way around the world, you know something is terribly wrong.

How people can support the LCBO really blows my mind. Perhaps it's the people who don't drink....

 

[adma]

Hey, I don't drink.

But look at it this way: money's worth. You get more of a feeling our liquor joints are patronized by Iggy/Rae voters than McCain/Palin voters...

 

[gabe]

Something needs to be done about the bottle returns at the beer stores. i have waited a long time in line to return my beer cases while winos in front of me the were returning shopping carts full of wine bottles.

 

[ShonTron]

Crown Royal? Sure that stuff's nice, but I like the local Forty Creek rye better, and it's cheaper.

Most of the problems with the liquor laws and taxes have nothing to do with LCBO, they are the a result of AGCO (licencing) and laws. I say we do three things to modernize liquor laws:

1. Break up the Beer Store monopoly. It really is unique to Ontario and we don't get better prices when buying the wares of the 3 owners - Molson-Coors, InBev and Sapporo (Sleeman), so it doesn't even have the advantages of a factory outlet or wholesaler. Allow stores to obtain special licences to sell beer, say with a 6% limit, and allow Brewers' Retail to compete in that marketplace, or sell their operations to the LCBO. There's already a system of licenced retailers for both LCBO and Brewers' Retail in small towns. The LCBO would be allowed to sell 12 and 24 cases.

Plenty of other provinces and states still have public liquor stores. Quebec, with beer and wine available in deps and supermarkets, while maintaining a pretty good SAQ store system, is not the worst model to follow. Pennsylvania has a system similar to what I am proposing.

2. Liberalize the provincial liquor laws.
a) Eliminate the price floor on beer, or any other floors in existance.
b) Abolish closing times or set it to at least 3AM, and that would help with some of the drunkeness issues like Clubland, by letting people to leave at their own pace. The 11PM closing time in the UK, since liberalized, resulted in major problems with binge drinking.
c) Loosen rules on public consumption, or allow municipalities to set their own rules - time to be rid of overpriced beer gardens at major public events - allow restaurant patios to tear down the rails to separate licenced areas from unlicenced areas. I'd even be willing to consider allowing open containers of alcohol in outdoor public areas (though not in public buildings or in private vehicles) as long as the person was not intoxicated.

3) Open debate on lowering both alcohol and tobacco age to 18 from 19. If you're no longer a minor, there should be no governmental restrictions on what you can and can not do subject to the adult justice system.

I could see a retail licencing system be set up for tobacco as it continues to be shunned and regulated. Actually, there's a good case for tobacco to be treated the same as alcohol, apart from consumption in enclosed spaces, of course. I could also see such a system set up when we finally bite the bullet on marijuana.

 

[gabe]

We pay way to much for liquor and beer now we are going to pay even more for the so called cheap beer.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hLUY4C9EkIf5YBLorM-Igk51cPCg

OTTAWA — Say goodbye to buck-a-bottle beer in Canada's most populous province.

The Ontario government last month quietly hiked the minimum price that can be charged for beer, to $25.60 from $24 for a case of 24 bottles.

That 6.7 per cent increase in the floor price of a case, bottle deposit excluded, has nothing to do with supply-and-demand, production costs, overhead or distribution expenses.

Instead, the Liquor Control Board of Ontario sets minimum prices as part of its "social responsibility" mandate established in 1993. Translation: If alcohol is too cheap, you may abuse it.

But documents obtained under Ontario's freedom-of-information law show that the Ministry of Finance, not the LCBO, pressed for higher beer prices - raising questions about the arm's-length relationship between the two bodies.

"The Ministry of Finance recommends an increase to the minimum retail price for beer effective November 24, 2008," says a memo distributed to board members for their Oct. 15 meeting in Toronto.

With only 30 minutes to approve a dozen legal issues, including the minimum price increase, the matter appears to have received limited debate.

"After due deliberation and consideration of the materials and recommendations as set out in them, a motion was made, seconded and carried," say the meeting minutes.

The written materials distributed to board members provide no explanation of why the new minimum was required, how it fit with the social responsibility mandate, how the increase was calculated and why it was required by Nov. 24.

Instead, the documents merely set out the mechanics of the change, which also affects coolers and low-alcohol spirits, and cite the recommendation of the Ministry of Finance. The last time the minimum price for regular-strength beer was adjusted was October 2005.

A spokeswoman for the LCBO insisted the board calls its own shots.

"When considering such pricing resolutions, the LCBO board seeks input from staff and government officials at the line ministry (Ministry of Finance) to which it reports," Linda Hapak said in an email response to questions.

"However, the final decision on such matters rests with the board."

Hapak said the increase was primarily to catch up with three years of inflation.

The board made no public announcement of the price change, which affects about 40 of the 400 beer brands for sale at LCBO outlets and The Beer Stores. A notice appeared a week after the Oct. 15 meeting on a section of the LCBO website directed to product suppliers.

"LCBO does not issue news releases for price increases," said Hapak.

Raising minimum prices for beer can help boost the bottom line at the big breweries. Hapak said the increase could also affect government revenues.

"If customers purchase the same litre volume of the 40 brands directly affected by the minimum price increases, then the province could receive incremental RST (retail sales tax) revenue, if customers don't reduce other purchases that are subject to RST."

A higher floor price for spirits - which the board implemented on July 21 this year - has boosted revenues at the LCBO by about $1 million a month, an internal document shows.

A court document made public earlier this year showed the federal commissioner of competition was investigating whether one big brewery in the province had ever tried to influence the Ontario government's decisions on minimum prices.

But no such evidence was ever produced, and the commissioner eventually lost the complicated takeover-related case in federal court.

Most other provinces also set minimum prices for alcohol, whether for sale in retail outlets or in bars and taverns.

Last week, for example, the Nova Scotia government set a minimum price of $2.50 for a serving of wine, beer or spirits in licensed establishments - a move it said was designed to encourage responsible drinking, especially among the young.

Beer sales in Ontario are estimated to be worth $2.5 billion annually

 

[lordmandeep]

Well Alcohol has to same some sort of regulation to it or things can turn crazy really quickly.

My area is already a nuthouse in the summer with people drinking in their garages and yelling and screaming till 2am.

 

[Dan416]

Apparently this will affect coolers as well

 

[badga]

My annoyance with the LCBO is centered on their marketing budget which strikes me as ridiculously large and pointless at the same time. I seem to get weekly full colour high quality stock inserts in my newspaper (twice a week this time of year) extolling the virtues of Stella and the latest Australian critter wine. Seeing as they have a monopoly what possible rationale is there to spend money to promote booze in Ontario? I would much rather pay a little less or have that money go into the tax base.

 

[Edward Skira]

I seem to get weekly full colour high quality stock inserts in my newspaper (twice a week this time of year) extolling the virtues of Stella and the latest Australian critter wine

I'm pretty sure that would be co-op advertising. LCBO handles the advertising with payment for the ad coming from Stella or the Australian wine company. Part of the ad buy probably includes in-store display advertising or special racking. This would be a profit centre for the LCBO.

 

[badga]

Ed, if that is the case, consider me educated. This would make a little more sense as to why so much money is being spent with the various producers wanting to introduce new product or gain share. Still it does seem to be a little wasteful.

 

[afransen]

Their shareholders probably don't think so!

 

[Long Island Mike]

Sell the LCBO: No they will not-It's too lucrative for Ontario...

Everyone: I read this topic on the LCBO and I feel that Ontario will NOT sell the LCBO because it is too lucrative a monopoly business and revenue generator for the Province.

The thing that is quite different to me is the Brewers Retail beer monopoly.
I am in Philadelphia for the New Year's Holiday posting this-Pennsylvania is a LCB State with State Stores selling liquor but beer in PA can only be bought from private distrubutor-type stores or you can purchase a take-out six pack
from a bar or tavern-the only quantity they are permitted to sell that way.

It is quite different from NY State-which many UT members know due to the proximity of WNY from Toronto with privately run liquor stores and beer sales in places like Supermarkets-a no-no in PA. With the PA liquor monopoly some retailers in neighboring states-like southern New Jersey sell liquor at much better prices targeted at PA customers. A great example of this is a liquor retail group in South Jersey named Roger-Wilco that has large stores on main routes into Philadelphia in Palmyra and Pennsauken,NJ.

Something like this between New York State and Ontario is obviously different because of having to cross thru Customs but I wonder if liquor stores in Buffalo and Niagara Falls have many Ontario customers as I suspect.
In closing selling and privatizing LCBO may be prudent but the Province will be quite reluctant to part with that big tax revenue source.
Long Island Mike

 

[CityPlaceN1]

If by deregulated you mean letting other businesses sell liquor, beer, and wine, then YES. It's like having only Shopper's Drug Mart be the only place that can sell prescription drugs. I would rather buy my prescriptions elsewhere where the dispensing fee is cheaper. The same for liquor.

The LCBO is now a big box store. While they may have their place, they are not convenient for me, and is expensive.

The day before Christmas and New Year they had lineups outside my local store. Totally not convenient.

 

[TKTKTK]

The day before Christmas and New Year they had lineups outside my local store. Totally not convenient.

On Christmas eve there were lineups outside all stores. Not just LCBOs. You'd have seen similar lineups outside private liquor stores, too - unless they only stocked things people didn't want to buy

Deregulating the LCBO is nonsense. It's one of the few crown corps that does its business well. And contrary to some of the comments on here - it won't result in lower prices, as Alberta clearly demonstrates (their liquor is more expensive).

Save this venom for Brewer's Retail - they're the ones in need of dissolution.

 

[gabe]

On Christmas eve there were lineups outside all stores. Not just LCBOs. You'd have seen similar lineups outside private liquor stores, too - unless they only stocked things people didn't want to buy

Deregulating the LCBO is nonsense. It's one of the few crown corps that does its business well. And contrary to some of the comments on here - it won't result in lower prices, as Alberta clearly demonstrates (their liquor is more expensive).

Save this venom for Brewer's Retail - they're the ones in need of dissolution.

Our LCBO stores are few and far between so of course there is going to long line ups as well at the beer stores. What i miss about living in NY every grocery store and every gas station and every convenience store sells beer, as well as private liquor stores on every corner and in strip malls. I always stock up on beer and wine when i'm in new york state one reason i save money and they also carry a lot of wines and beers you can't get in Ontario.