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Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

micheal_can said:
In a simple reason, once it is gone,it is gone. Whether it be equipment, stations, skilled employees, etc, once the last train runs, all of that and more are gone.
Maybe the success of it would be if it operated differently.
For example, had the Charlevoix gone to the Gare du Palais and connected with the rest of the NA network, it may have attracted more passengers.
Another example would be for the Agawa Canyon train. Since there is a group of people who want a train along the route extended to Oba Lake, this could be operated in conjunction of it.
For the RMR, Maybe the problem with it is you need to spend a night in a hotel and you cannot do both ways.

Point is, maybe the problem is that the type of service is the problem.
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You're trying to conflate tourist service with passenger service. Tourist services are purposely slower, daylight only and typically offer packages such as on-board food and hotel accommodations.

Charlevoix: Out to St. Anne de Beaupre *might* be within a commuter shed but that sounds like a city/province issue. Outside of that it gets pretty rural pretty quickly. Other than your train-from-everywhere-to-everywhere mantra, I don't (and apparently nobody else) see an economic base for passenger service.
On that note, depending on which website you read, either the tourist train or the whole line has be shut down, which would seem strange since their are/were active customers still on the line.

RMR: Some of their packages are circle, and you absolutely can take the one-ways in either direction. Bring a couple of well-stocked credit cards. Again, not a Point A-to Point-B passenger service.

Algoma: Other than the hamlet of Searchmount, the Agawa Canyon tour train services absolutely no communities. The main reason the Hearst-SSM passenger train could exist was Algoma Central was pretty flush with freight traffic from Wawa and Dubreuilville plus interchange traffic from Hearst at Oba. The first two no longer exist. As it stands now, most of the route doesn't have an economic foundation from any source. I don't know where the group that wants to start their train to nowhere expects to get their ridership. I was always curious about the original passenger traffic between the two end point as there is no natural connection (cultural, education, healthcare, etc.) between the two.

Edit: I'm repeating a lot of what Paul has already said.
 
crs1026 said:
If that is your rationale, we would keep running trains to prairie ghost towns. With nobody riding.

The whole point of making economic decisions is to derive the most utility from the money spent. Things that don't deliver utility do get shed. We may mourn a few, but then we move on.

One can make an individual sad story about the wilderness resident losing their train...,but is that utility worth the expenditure?
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We always say we should do things like the EU does, right? So, if the UK can run ghost trains,why shouldn't we?
To be fair, I am not suggesting we run ghost trains.

crs1026 said:
RMTR is run very well, thank you. And generates lots of wealth. But it is not transportation infrastructure . Mostly it's a tourism attraction. Sure, passengers get a ride to a destination, but the big utility is the experience. You could not shift much of the Calgary-Vancouver air or highway business to RMTR by running it differently.
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I mentioned it as it was listed by the one commenting. To be fair, I doubt it will ever fail or ever need someone to step in to run it.

crs1026 said:
RMTR runs both ways, and you can ride it both ways (if you can afford it).
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I actually looked a few years ago (before covid) of doing Vancouver - Calgary on a train and could not find the return trip.

crs1026 said:
Switching RMTR to an overnight train would be a disaster.... half the scenery goes by in the dark, and your train capacity (hence revenue) falls dramatically, and your overhead costs soar. The beauty of RMTR is it's an all-coach train with high seat density and simple (relatively) equipment. For the customer, sleeping in a motel in a bed that doesn't rock and roll in a much more spacious room is quite acceptable, because you get a second day's worth of scenery and first class service.

- Paul
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I agree it would not be the same. If in the weird scenario of it failing, that would mean something about it is not working for it.TBH,I more think of owning a slot along that way would be the valuable part.

crs1026 said:
PS: I got curious and turned off "ignore", to my regret. It's going back on. Not much serious discussion going on here.
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You do you.
 
lenaitch said:
You're trying to conflate tourist service with passenger service. Tourist services are purposely slower, daylight only and typically offer packages such as on-board food and hotel accommodations.
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I know the difference. I have been on both. In fact, I have been on Agawa Canyon a few times. I have been on various parts of the Corridor as well.

lenaitch said:
Charlevoix: Out to St. Anne de Beaupre *might* be within a commuter shed but that sounds like a city/province issue. Outside of that it gets pretty rural pretty quickly. Other than your train-from-everywhere-to-everywhere mantra, I don't (and apparently nobody else) see an economic base for passenger service.
On that note, depending on which website you read, either the tourist train or the whole line has be shut down, which would seem strange since their are/were active customers still on the line.
Click to expand...

I do agree it is a more local thing. However, since Via has 5 routes which never leave a province, adding one more would not be a stretch.There are 2 more that if/when the lines are reactivated and upgraded will come back that Via has suspended that also are within the same province

lenaitch said:
RMR: Some of their packages are circle, and you absolutely can take the one-ways in either direction. Bring a couple of well-stocked credit cards. Again, not a Point A-to Point-B passenger service.
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As I mentioned above, pre covid, I tried to look for a Vancouver - Calgary trip. Could not find it.

lenaitch said:
Algoma: Other than the hamlet of Searchmount, the Agawa Canyon tour train services absolutely no communities. The main reason the Hearst-SSM passenger train could exist was Algoma Central was pretty flush with freight traffic from Wawa and Dubreuilville plus interchange traffic from Hearst at Oba. The first two no longer exist. As it stands now, most of the route doesn't have an economic foundation from any source. I don't know where the group that wants to start their train to nowhere expects to get their ridership. I was always curious about the original passenger traffic between the two end point as there is no natural connection (cultural, education, healthcare, etc.) between the two.

Edit: I'm repeating a lot of what Paul has already said.
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SSM is the connection. If you have a tourist camp, having that connection to a city is important. It is how your supplies and guests get to you. A lot of those places have no all weather roads. Many of those places have no road access in winter. The service is much like the Sudbury - White River route. If that train shuts down, a lot of those camps are shut down as well. The connection to Hearst would be wanted, but due to the cost of a bridge repair,it is not realistic on opening day.
 
I think the Greyhound business model needs to come into play here if you want to build a proper passenger rail network.

Partnering with bus companies is also a helpful strategy.
 
Bordercollie said:
I think the Greyhound business model needs to come into play here if you want to build a proper passenger rail network.

Partnering with bus companies is also a helpful strategy.
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That is where they need to look at their provincial counterparts. GO transit has buses that supplement the train. Ontario Northland has built up a robust bus service that will only complement the return of the train.
 
micheal_can said:
That is where they need to look at their provincial counterparts. GO transit has buses that supplement the train. Ontario Northland has built up a robust bus service that will only complement the return of the train.
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But right now even connections in the corridor suck. You can't get from Windsor to Ottawa in the afternoon without waiting for the next day. (Unless the train is exactly on time).

If train 76 is delayed you can't get on #48. 40min is kinda tight.
 
Bordercollie said:
But right now even connections in the corridor suck. You can't get from Windsor to Ottawa in the afternoon without waiting for the next day. (Unless the train is exactly on time).

If train 76 is delayed you can't get on #48. 40min is kinda tight.
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My thinking is that is ore to do with the lack of slots that are dictated by CN than Via doing anything. I doubt a bus will fix that. HxR should fix that.
 
micheal_can said:
My thinking is that is ore to do with the lack of slots that are dictated by CN than Via doing anything. I doubt a bus will fix that. HxR should fix that.
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Well Trudeau stepped down today so unless pen has already been put to paper or will be in the next 60 days HFR is not getting built anytime soon.

You can also say goodbye to Universal Dental care, $15 a day child care, universal prescriptions for children and seniors.
 
Bordercollie said:
Well Trudeau stepped down today so unless pen has already been put to paper or will be in the next 60 days HFR is not getting built anytime soon.

You can also say goodbye to Universal Dental care, $15 a day child care, universal prescriptions for children and seniors.
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I'm not sure about HFR, but I have no doubt the next PM will keep the latter.
 
Bordercollie said:
Well Trudeau stepped down today so unless pen has already been put to paper or will be in the next 60 days HFR is not getting built anytime soon.

You can also say goodbye to Universal Dental care, $15 a day child care, universal prescriptions for children and seniors.
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Time will tell what is gone and what remains. But,I do expect everything to be gone. The question is will PP get the super majority that was predicted or not, but this is not the thread to go down that.

Bordercollie said:
He voted against all cost of living adjustments, any support for natives or the environment, basic income, tougher punishment for domestic violence repeat offenders, I can keep going.

Votes - Pierre Poilievre - Members of Parliament - House of Commons of Canada

Votes - Pierre Poilievre - Members of Parliament - House of Commons of Canada
www.ourcommons.ca www.ourcommons.ca
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Did he vote for anything?
 
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