Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[guavadelic]

Ontario’s plans for HSR were also “pretty impressive”, but it is unfortunately only when plans need to get funded that you find out whether a government is determined to deliver on its promisses: this is were Wynne failed miserably, whereas Ford delivered (for urban and regional rail in the GTHA mostly). We will soon find out whether Alberta follows the paths of Wynne or Ford…

Once Metrolinx has found a way to sneak frequent passenger trains past Georgetown and Aldershot, it will be infinitely easier to provide faster and more frequent intercity rail service to Southwest Ontario…

That's still to be determined. Let's wait for the scope of GO Expansion to be finalized and contracts signed before we start singing praises.

The reversal on the Scarborough Junction improvements doesn't inspire a lot confidence regarding the final form of GO expansion and that the required funding will be there when the time comes.

 

[micheal_can]

ICYMI 2 storms hot Ontario, one in the Muskokas and one in SSM dumping over 100 CM of snow. It was so bad, highway 11 between Huntsville and Gravenhurst was shut down for 18 hours. Would be nice to not have people and goods stranded. Sadly, we just squabble over what is left instead of doing anything about it.

 

[lenaitch]

This thread has gone off the rails (pardon the pun).

Restoring rail service to Midland? That’s fantasy map territory.

And you are correct, so I moved my comment over here instead of cluttering up the ONR thread.

For those who feel running brand new, green field passenger rail hither and you throughout Ontario, specifically in the Simcoe County area, it might be helpful if there was a need or, in practical terms, a business case, to justify it. I took a look at the published ridership numbers for the County's Linx transit. For the Barrie to Orillia route, the numbers worked out to about eight passengers per run; for the Midland to Orillia route, it was slightly over three. Obviously those are numerical averages of annual totals reduced to per-day/per-trip, but still pretty meagre.

 

[nfitz]

In the comments about Midland, I assumed significant densification. If the Barrie line were extended to a western Barrie station the question was merely where else could it go. It wasn't entirely serious - and in reality, I don't see anything obvious past another suburban Barrie station.

 

[micheal_can]

And you are correct, so I moved my comment over here instead of cluttering up the ONR thread.

For those who feel running brand new, green field passenger rail hither and you throughout Ontario, specifically in the Simcoe County area, it might be helpful if there was a need or, in practical terms, a business case, to justify it. I took a look at the published ridership numbers for the County's Linx transit. For the Barrie to Orillia route, the numbers worked out to about eight passengers per run; for the Midland to Orillia route, it was slightly over three. Obviously those are numerical averages of annual totals reduced to per-day/per-trip, but still pretty meagre.

For Midland and Orillia, a GO bus between them and Barrie would be a good start.
They do have buses between them.

ROUTE 3 - Simcoe County

Route 3 Orillia to Barrie Regular Hours of Service LINX Route 3 provides 60 minutes service from Orillia

simcoe.ca

ROUTE 6 - Simcoe County

Route 6 Midland to Orillia Hours of Service LINX Route 6 provides hourly service from the Town of Midland

simcoe.ca

 

[lenaitch]

For Midland and Orillia, a GO bus between them and Barrie would be a good start.
They do have buses between them.

ROUTE 3 - Simcoe County

Route 3 Orillia to Barrie Regular Hours of Service LINX Route 3 provides 60 minutes service from Orillia

simcoe.ca

ROUTE 6 - Simcoe County

Route 6 Midland to Orillia Hours of Service LINX Route 6 provides hourly service from the Town of Midland

simcoe.ca

Strange. I just said that in the post your quoted.

If the County is running a bus service, why would GO either run a parallel service or replace the County service? Most if not all of the Linx service is hourly 0600-1800 (some variations) Monday-Friday. Think GO would do that?

 

[micheal_can]

Strange. I just said that in the post your quoted.

If the County is running a bus service, why would GO either run a parallel service or replace the County service? Most if not all of the Linx service is hourly 0600-1800 (some variations) Monday-Friday. Think GO would do that?

The same reason we have subways and local transit. During the rush, have a more express service run by GO. Have one or 2 stops in Midland, Orillia and Barrie. If there ever becomes the demand to add rail service to those, the GO buses would be very busy. Once an hour is good bus service as a connector to those locales, but it does not speak to the potential commuter services that may or may not exist. It also shows that the province 'cares' about adding service here.

 

[north-of-anything]

The same reason we have subways and local transit. During the rush, have a more express service run by GO. Have one or 2 stops in Midland, Orillia and Barrie. If there ever becomes the demand to add rail service to those, the GO buses would be very busy. Once an hour is good bus service as a connector to those locales, but it does not speak to the potential commuter services that may or may not exist. It also shows that the province 'cares' about adding service here.

Did you... look at the route maps? There are only a handful of stops in each town/city on any Linx route. They're already "express". Both the Midland-Barrie service and the Orillia-Barrie services, from personal experience as a Georgian College alumnus, appear to be oriented towards those who need to go to and from Georgian College and RVH, which is why they don't even go into downtown.

If demand becomes too much for their current hourly bus, Linx will add another bus and make service every 30 minutes.

 

[micheal_can]

Did you... look at the route maps? There are only a handful of stops in each town/city on any Linx route. They're already "express". Both the Midland-Barrie service and the Orillia-Barrie services, from personal experience as a Georgian College alumnus, appear to be oriented towards those who need to go to and from Georgian College and RVH, which is why they don't even go into downtown.

If demand becomes too much for their current hourly bus, Linx will add another bus and make service every 30 minutes.

I did look at them. Just like you said, they are not really geared to commuting for work, but commuting for school. That means a different demographic is targeted. I am not suggesting cancelling Linx, but instead,have GO service that would be more geared to commuting for work. That is of course if there is even any demand for it. Alternatively, having the Linx buses going to the Barrie Allendale GO station would be a good start too.

 

[lenaitch]

add another bus

Or convert to bigger buses.

That means a different demographic is targeted

An hourly service that runs from 0600-1900 (ish). How does the seat cares why the bum is sitting on it?

 

[roger1818]

Or convert to bigger buses.

Wrong thread for this discussion, but I think we have a tendency to overuse high capacity buses. They should only be used when increasing frequency has little to no benefit (either the service is already frequent enough that the wait times are irrelevant or it is scheduled to match up with another event, like a connection or event times).

An hourly service that runs from 0600-1900 (ish). How does the seat cares why the bum is sitting on it?

I don't know, but it could be that the class times don't match up well with the GO transfer times. It could also just be a case of siloing..

 

[Urban Sky]

Wrong thread for this discussion, but I think we have a tendency to overuse high capacity buses. They should only be used when increasing frequency has little to no benefit (either the service is already frequent enough that the wait times are irrelevant or it is scheduled to match up with another event, like a connection or event times).

This is indeed getting off-topic, but also applies to railways: high-capacity buses (or: bilevel trains, for that matter) are mostly used when the frequency cannot be increased further. In my home town of Darmstadt (30 km south of Frankfurt), the responsible authority has capped the number of scheduled bus trips which serve the central transfer point „Luisenplatz“ and this is the reason why some lines operate as high-capacity buses…

 

[lenaitch]

Wrong thread for this discussion, but I think we have a tendency to overuse high capacity buses. They should only be used when increasing frequency has little to no benefit (either the service is already frequent enough that the wait times are irrelevant or it is scheduled to match up with another event, like a connection or event times).

Fair enough, but they currently only operate 24-seat (I think) buses.

I don't know, but it could be that the class times don't match up well with the GO transfer times. It could also just be a case of siloing..

The point was made that the schedule favours student (local, as in Georgian College, Lakehead U, etc.) vs commuters, and my point disagreed. Besides, before everyone gets excited about meeting the GO train, it would be helpful to see if there is a critical mass of people who actually commute from Midland/Orillia to Toronto. When I lived there, I only ran into a couple and mstly because they had moved out prior to retirement and were simply running the clock down. Having said that, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to have a couple of morning and evening runs extended to Allendale.

 

[micheal_can]

An hourly service that runs from 0600-1900 (ish). How does the seat cares why the bum is sitting on it?

If it does not connect to a GO station, the bum won't be going to to use the GO train or other commuter services.

 

[lenaitch]

If it does not connect to a GO station, the bum won't be going to to use the GO train or other commuter services.

Do people have to be Toronto-bound to be considered "commuting to work"? I suspect that more Midland/Penetang residents work in Barrie or Orillia that the GTA (although apparently they don't want to take the bus to do it). Georgian College and RVH are two of Barrie's largest employers - and the buses stop there.