SunriseChampion
Senior Member
To me that sounds like a shitty excuse for ineptitude. There was insufficient planning. That's it. End of story, we don't need excuses.
Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison
- Thread starter AHK
- Start date
To me that sounds like a shitty excuse for ineptitude. There was insufficient planning. That's it. End of story, we don't need excuses.
67Cup
Active Member
There is a difference between an explanation and a rationalization. The planner’s statement is the latter.
They could plan all they want but where's the money needed to build something here? Lots of money going to the Gardiner, Scarborough extension, Smarttrack etc but the plans for here (and there were plans) were prioritized to the bottom of the list a long time ago. I would put the blame on the Mayor and council. They approved the developments and they didn't allocate anything for transit. Where was Councillor Grimes all this time? He was first elected in 2003, long before all this was built!
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Fine, delete my line about insufficient planning if that helps, but the rest of what I said is still valid.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The March 20, 2018, TTC board meeting has a report on New TTC Services - Southwest Toronto, at this link.
• New accessible stop/platforms are required for all new stops on streets with new service
• New accessible stop/platforms are required on Lake Shore Boulevard West between Park Lawn Road and Mimico Avenue
• Parking prohibitions are required around proposed bus stops, and along the south side of Newcastle Street from Royal York to beyond the curve at Audley Street
• Mimico GO Shuttle and The West Mall weekday peak period service will begin June 2018 and September 2018, respectively, subject to the completion of the above three points
• The West Mall service will be jointly promoted by TTC and Smart Commute Etobicoke South
• The Mimico GO Shuttle will be jointly promoted by TTC, Metrolinx and the City
• The TTC will monitor operations and ridership and report back to the Board in late 2019.
• New accessible stop/platforms are required on Lake Shore Boulevard West between Park Lawn Road and Mimico Avenue
• Parking prohibitions are required around proposed bus stops, and along the south side of Newcastle Street from Royal York to beyond the curve at Audley Street
• Mimico GO Shuttle and The West Mall weekday peak period service will begin June 2018 and September 2018, respectively, subject to the completion of the above three points
• The West Mall service will be jointly promoted by TTC and Smart Commute Etobicoke South
• The Mimico GO Shuttle will be jointly promoted by TTC, Metrolinx and the City
• The TTC will monitor operations and ridership and report back to the Board in late 2019.
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Amare
Senior Member
This shuttle is going to be an utter failure from a ridership perspective in the AM peak, but it's probably a service the TTC will retain regardless due to how bad things are in the area. By the time one takes the shuttle to Mimico and waits for the train, they would already be halfway downtown with the 501 (as bad as the service already is). In the PM peak I could see it being useful since it doesnt do all of the looping.
I think there is no shortage of where to place the blame in this case. The city failed since they couldnt come up with a comprehensive plan for the area, and the OMB essentially devised one for them. They had more then 10 years to come up with a plan previous to all those condos sprouting up and they did absolutely nothing. They have also failed in providing transit ever since the thousands of residents moved in, and there is no excuse for that.
The province failed since their rational for building all that density in the area was flawed from the very start. Additionally, Metrolinx and Leslie Woo used their backwards rational to plan against a GO station in the area.
Grimes failed since he did not push the city to come up with a plan for the area, nor did he push for transit up until ~2012. The only transit that has been implemented in the area since he came into power has been the pitiful 145 Downtown Express.
Ultimately the biggest blame should go to the city and Grimes who failed to prepare and come up with a comprehensive plan for the area when they had the chance to.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
From the above report, see link:
Option 2 was deemed not physically feasible for regular bus operations at the westbound left turn from Park Lawn Road to the Gardiner Service Road, and at the southbound left turn from the Service Road onto Legion Road. Significant geometric modifications and the removal of curbs and jersey barriers would be required. In addition, travel time of 20 to 25 minutes would be required for this routing, which would prevent reliable connections with GO trains at 30 minutes headway. For these reasons Option 2 was eliminated.
Option 3 was deemed feasible for bus operations; however it would require a minimum of 27 minutes to travel. The duration of travel time would prevent reliable connections with GO trains at 30 minutes headway. Option 3 was therefore eliminated due to reliability concerns.
Option 2 was deemed not physically feasible for regular bus operations at the westbound left turn from Park Lawn Road to the Gardiner Service Road, and at the southbound left turn from the Service Road onto Legion Road. Significant geometric modifications and the removal of curbs and jersey barriers would be required. In addition, travel time of 20 to 25 minutes would be required for this routing, which would prevent reliable connections with GO trains at 30 minutes headway. For these reasons Option 2 was eliminated.
Option 3 was deemed feasible for bus operations; however it would require a minimum of 27 minutes to travel. The duration of travel time would prevent reliable connections with GO trains at 30 minutes headway. Option 3 was therefore eliminated due to reliability concerns.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
innsertnamehere
Superstar
TTC always errs on the uncomfortably safe edge when it comes to AODA compliance - such as their insistence of not displaying balances on presto readers. I imagine it's similar here.
Filip
Senior Member
It's almost as if they want this bus to fail.
Given Mimico isn't accessible I don't see the point.
67Cup
Active Member
I just hope this shuttle doesn't end up being the transit equivalent of the portables put in a school yard in a growing area. They are just "temporary", the School Board says, but they are still there when the kindergarten kids from the school have their fiftieth anniversary reunion. The maps and photos show the inadequacy of the present Mimico Station and the folly of not building an HBS Go Station to supplement or even replace it.
An aside: I thought the Star article was good but was amused by the remark that on bad days the commute to work can stretch out to forty minutes. That is actually true, but the reporter seems unaware that, to much of the readership of his paper, forty minutes would be a pleasantly short commute. Forty minutes, by the way, is also shorter in my experience than the time it takes to get downtown from HBS by TTC, barring very good luck with connections. Contrary to the planner's rationalizing statement, I would gladly shift to TTC for a number of journeys if it were at all convenient. Right now??? In my circumstances, it is more a matter of picking the right time to drive.
An aside: I thought the Star article was good but was amused by the remark that on bad days the commute to work can stretch out to forty minutes. That is actually true, but the reporter seems unaware that, to much of the readership of his paper, forty minutes would be a pleasantly short commute. Forty minutes, by the way, is also shorter in my experience than the time it takes to get downtown from HBS by TTC, barring very good luck with connections. Contrary to the planner's rationalizing statement, I would gladly shift to TTC for a number of journeys if it were at all convenient. Right now??? In my circumstances, it is more a matter of picking the right time to drive.
Filip
Senior Member
I think they meant 40 mins of public transit commute on a good day and an hour + on a bad day (which is most days let's face it).
The planner's statement should really get him reviewed because I don't think I've read something that stupid from city staff in recent memory. You can't shoehorn transit into existing neighbourhoods? People won't change their habits? What in God's name???? I guess we can cancel every single transit project currently on the books and focus on building streetcars to new subdivisions.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Use patterns change over time, he has a bit of a point, but yes, its a bit moronic.
Many people in Humber Bay live there as there is easy access to the Gardiner for suburban job commuting, not for access to downtown. If transit had been in place early, people moving to Humber Bay would have been more likely to have jobs in areas that transit can service. Now, even if you install transit, many in the area won't take it as it does not service their destinations.
Over time people will move in with the transit in mind, but this will take time, slowing transit uptake.
Many people in Humber Bay live there as there is easy access to the Gardiner for suburban job commuting, not for access to downtown. If transit had been in place early, people moving to Humber Bay would have been more likely to have jobs in areas that transit can service. Now, even if you install transit, many in the area won't take it as it does not service their destinations.
Over time people will move in with the transit in mind, but this will take time, slowing transit uptake.
67Cup
Active Member
The 40 minutes commute referenced in the Star article is definitely “by car.” I probably wasn’t as clear as I ought to have been about that in my post. Transit normally exceeds forty minutes by a fair amount, in my experience. The context in the article seems to be a commute to downtown
Filip
Senior Member
IIRC the commuting survey done 4 years back showed that most residents in HBS commute to downtown.