King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

Sure, if there are cyclists that actually want to ride straight on King between 10 pm and 5 am, then why not.

Exactly. But Council won't agree to that. And that's the point. Bikes are much more "public transit" than taxis are. Or do they have to be for-hire rickshaws with a lobby at City Hall to count?

Steve Munro describes the Council proceedings in detail and adds comment in a blog he posted just a few hours back. Missing in comment is Cressy's speech, the Ying for Tory's Yang. It remains curious to me. A deal had been done.
https://stevemunro.ca/2017/07/09/king-street-pilot-approved-and-amended-by-council/

Btw: Mihevc' performance was brilliant.

This is a point I'm having trouble finding an answer to: "if there are cyclists that actually want to ride straight on King between 10 pm and 5 am, then why not". Since there's no detail I can find on what exactly the "exception" entails, I'm led to wonder if it's left hand turns too that taxis will be permitted to do?

And how about stopping to pick-up fares at the streetcar platforms themselves? And why hasn't some eagle-eyed reporter picked-up on this yet?

 

[MetroMan]

No there isn't. Parking is paid from 8 AM on Saturdays and 1 PM on Sundays until midnight

Parking is free after 12am. Until very recently, it was after 9PM. You can see that they taped over the signs.

It’s just outstandingly ridiculous that parking is allowed on King at all on club nights when the street is completely gridlocked, let alone that it’s free (!!!@#) at the worst possible time, with the highest demand where nearby parking lots are charging $20.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I am going to try and use a moped to see if I could get through the pilot project area.

 

[ShonTron]

Parking is free after 12am. Until very recently, it was after 9PM. You can see that they taped over the signs.

View attachment 114587

It’s just outstandingly ridiculous that parking is allowed on King at all on club nights when the street is completely gridlocked, let alone that it’s free (!!!@#) at the worst possible time, with the highest demand where nearby parking lots are charging $20.

Some people will just then find a friendly doctor to supply a disabled parking permit. I never understood why they are exempt from many parking regulations (no need to pay for parking, can park in "no parking" areas.) It's abused. Instead, the city should be having designated street parking for persons with disabilities, and the permit allows you to park in those.

King Street should be a "no standing" zone, 24 hours a day. Eliminates all parking, but allows pick ups/drop offs by all vehicles.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The bicyclists will either ignore the right-turn only rule, "walk" across the intersection, or turn right followed by a U-turn and another right turn, all to go straight. Currently, sounds like a bureaucrat rule which doesn't follow logic, that will be ignored. Just like those "dismount before crossing" signs, which are ignored by 99% of bicyclists.

 

[amnesiajune]

It’s just outstandingly ridiculous that parking is allowed on King at all on club nights when the street is completely gridlocked, let alone that it’s free (!!!@#) at the worst possible time, with the highest demand where nearby parking lots are charging $20.

This is just wrong in every way. And I agree with getting rid of street parking on King and Queen, but this is all kinds of wrong. Underground parking is dirt-cheap any time except weekdays during the day. Midnight - 8 AM is when King Street is emptiest according to the TTC's service summaries.

 

[steveintoronto]

Just like those "dismount before crossing" signs, which are ignored by 99% of bicyclists.

Well I guess I'm one of the 1%. It's not just following the law or protocol, it's *safety*! Out of those "99%" only 98% of them even look over their shoulder before doing it. These folks would be toast on a motorbike. (and eventually burnt toast on a bicycle)

But it exactly illustrates how the there must be no exceptions for anyone, and since enforcement is so pathetically scarce as it is on King Street (except for towing), I say erect barriers/gates/fenced RoW in sections to *mechanically* enforce the clear RoW for streetcars, and block all others. This can be done while still allowing the wet-squib compromise to allow sharing with cars, albeit it will be difficult, especially in a 'pilot trial'.

 

[amnesiajune]

It's not just following the law or protocol, it's *safety*!

It's a law that casts a big net because some people aren't capable of using common sense. If there's nobody in the way it's perfectly safe to just slow down a bit.

Why not? The initial study area stretched further east and further west and the Report explained why the current blocks were selected. There are major problems with a lack of alternative routes west of Bathurst but the situation from Jarvis to River is similar to areas further west (in the current pilot study area) so it could probably also handle a 'mall'. At the consultations, several people suggested having Sherbourne as the east end of the pilot but Jarvis was selected, we will see what happens jusr east of Jarvis!

I'd think that it's practical to extend this all the way out to Queen East. Use Queen - Sumach, Sumach - Parliament and Parliament - Sherbourne as the segments.

 

[steveintoronto]

Just like those "dismount before crossing" signs, which are ignored by 99% of bicyclists.

If there's nobody in the way it's perfectly safe to just slow down a bit.

Beg to differ. *ANY* sudden movement from the norm on a bike should be done by first looking, as if looking in the first place shouldn't be done. What's most especially a dumb-ass move is to be cycling along, and then suddenly turn left through a *pedestrian crosswalk* as if you're invulnerable and everyone else knows what you're doing.

What really irks me is that many of these types are the first to lecture on wearing a helmet, yet they haven't an inkling if what it takes to survive, and not hurt others, by their behaviour.

Unfortunately, it means we have to build cycling infrastructure that accommodates vacuous cyclists. And the same holds true for drivers on the King Corridor. Taxis especially do all sorts of dumb-ass moves, like sudden turns, stops, and left hand turns, oblivious to anyone else, or common sense.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Had to double check. From this link, dated July 4, 2017, there are the following exceptions:

Transit would be prioritized by discouraging non-local vehicle traffic on King Street, limiting the number of private vehicles competing for limited road space with streetcars. There would be no east-west through vehicle movements allowed along King Street at key intersections in the pilot area: Bathurst Street, Portland Street, Spadina Avenue, Peter Street, University Avenue, Yonge Street, Church Street, and Jarvis Street. Transit vehicles, bicycles, emergency services (police, fire and paramedics), and road maintenance vehicles (i.e. street sweepers) would be allowed to travel east-west through these intersections.
​

I'm assuming pedestrians as well. Don't know about rollerbladers, skateboarders, wheelchairs, or strollers.

 

[Megaton327]

Had to double check. From this link, dated July 4, 2017, there are the following exceptions:

Transit would be prioritized by discouraging non-local vehicle traffic on King Street, limiting the number of private vehicles competing for limited road space with streetcars. There would be no east-west through vehicle movements allowed along King Street at key intersections in the pilot area: Bathurst Street, Portland Street, Spadina Avenue, Peter Street, University Avenue, Yonge Street, Church Street, and Jarvis Street. Transit vehicles, bicycles, emergency services (police, fire and paramedics), and road maintenance vehicles (i.e. street sweepers) would be allowed to travel east-west through these intersections.​

The bicycle exemption is ridiculous. There are cycle tracks on Richmond and Adelaide, the sidestreets+right turn loops are more than enough for bike access. Now we're going to still have bicycles blowing past the open doors of streetcars, and cutting off right-turning vehicles.

 

[steveintoronto]

Had to double check. From this link, dated July 4, 2017, there are the following exceptions:

The bicycle exemption is ridiculous. There are cycle tracks on Richmond and Adelaide, the sidestreets+right turn loops are more than enough for bike access. Now we're going to still have bicycles blowing past the open doors of streetcars, and cutting off right-turning vehicles.

I have to agree! No taxis, no bikes, NO EXCEPTIONS! (City vehicles besides) It's going to be challenge enough dealing with errant pedestrians, let alone drivers and taxis jamming the single lane on the streetcar RoW, especially at the streetcar stops, where the sidewalk comes out to the streetcar. Bikes must be allowed on the same lanes as vehicles, but adhere to the same rules.

Thanks for finding that Lis. I missed the section, even as I'd quoted parts from that same report.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Just wait for the pilot project and then critique

 

[Rainforest]

IMO, the glass is 90+ % full. No reason to complain .. yet.

 

[crs1026]

If it takes the year to get hard data on some of this, it's time well spent.

- Paul