King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

Ouch. My "the penny dropped" line backfired on me. I wasn't suggesting anyone was given a tangible inventive, quite the opposite. My meaning was that some Councillors who are normally unsympathetic to, or opposed to, the 'downtown' vision seem to have all blessed this deal all on their own...

I may have mis-characterized your words...But let's just review City Staff's own official stance:

Continues...
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2017/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-105589.pdf

And yet Council voted 38-1 for granting an exemption.

And then posters try to reassure that this is (gist) "Business as usual".

Indeed it is, and that's 98% of the problem right there. 2% reason, 98% politics.

Edit to Add: Just to leave no doubt as to who stands behind this report:

 

[transitnoob]

If you spend 5 minutes on King St just watching the vehicular traffic, you will witness numerous illegal driving maneouvres by taxis. This grows exponentially during the night hours which for some bizarre reason is when this exemption has been granted. Manoeuvres like 3 point turns / U-turns in the middle of the busy road, abrupt lane changes without signalling, and of course, waiting for a fare by double-parking or without putting emergency signals on, totally without any regard for any vehicles trying to get around them.

It's almost like taxis don't care about the rules...oh wait.

That City Council didn't realize that granting an exemption to the group of drivers that are precisely the group you don't want to give flexibility to obstruct and complicate streetcar operations, reflects either the stupidity of councillors or the power of the taxi lobby.

I hope that excellent data is collected during this pilot project that will explicitly show that terrible driving by taxi drivers should be cracked down on, and never given exemptions for in vital corridors like King St.

 

[raptor]

Except that some councillors will still vote in favor of taxis. Is everyone blind or just afraid to accuse politicians of being bribed by the taxi industry? There, I said it

 

[transitnoob]

Except that some councillors will still vote in favor of taxis. Is everyone blind or just afraid to accuse politicians of being bribed by the taxi industry? There, I said it

I'm not afraid, I just posted as much a couple of days ago. It's fairly obvious Karygiannis and Tory have been purchased by the taxi lobby.

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm not afraid, I just posted as much a couple of days ago. It's fairly obvious Karygiannis and Tory have been purchased by the taxi lobby.

Some of you readers are far more savvy and experienced at knowing where the vid record of this Council session would be. Can anyone post some links?

Edit:

scroll to 2:38>

 

[Rainforest]

If you spend 5 minutes on King St just watching the vehicular traffic, you will witness numerous illegal driving maneouvres by taxis. This grows exponentially during the night hours which for some bizarre reason is when this exemption has been granted. Manoeuvres like 3 point turns / U-turns in the middle of the busy road, abrupt lane changes without signalling, and of course, waiting for a fare by double-parking or without putting emergency signals on, totally without any regard for any vehicles trying to get around them.

It's almost like taxis don't care about the rules...oh wait.

That City Council didn't realize that granting an exemption to the group of drivers that are precisely the group you don't want to give flexibility to obstruct and complicate streetcar operations, reflects either the stupidity of councillors or the power of the taxi lobby.

I hope that excellent data is collected during this pilot project that will explicitly show that terrible driving by taxi drivers should be cracked down on, and never given exemptions for in vital corridors like King St.

While it is a good idea to force the taxi drivers to follow the existing rules, it doesn't mean we can't give them a minor exception that doesn't interfere much with the main goal of the whole excersise, letting the streetcars move with fewer obstructions.

 

[MetroMan]

Walking along King from Peter to Brant (3 blocks), I decided to count how many taxis were driving in the streetcar lane — because there’s somehow inexplicably free... FREEEEEE (!!!!#$%) parking on King on weekends, its busiest time! Forcing cars into the one streetcar lane. I could do this because of course, I could walk faster than the crawling traffic. The streetcars were packed with people who might as well be walking.

I counted 36 taxis, 28 cars and 7 streetcars in the westbound streetcar lane. If we took out 75% of those private cars — that’s generous — all of those taxis would still be causing the congestion. This exemption is going to prove fatal to the pilot. Taxis are going to continue driving in streetcar lanes, even during daytime, because this exemption sends the message that they’re “public transit” too and get to use the transit ROW. Private vehicles will just follow taxis through intersections and no amount of enforcement is going to prevent that because it’s not sustainable to have cops at every intersection 24/7.

I hope that city staff were given permission to make adjustments to the pilot to improve its performance without having to go back to council.

 

[steveintoronto]

While it is a good idea to force the taxi drivers to follow the existing rules, it doesn't mean we can't give them a minor exception that doesn't interfere much with the main goal of the whole excersise, letting the streetcars move with fewer obstructions.

OK. Then exceptions should apply to cyclists too. And, and, and....

Btw: I watched the entire excruciatingly painful council session on Youtube, albeit with some real bright spots. Staff were excellent. Keesmaat looked ill-at-ease to begin with, but got over her trepidations when realizing that other than the few councillors who knew their stuff, dealing with the rest was putting on a brave face to not to laugh at how absurd most were.

Staff, Byford included, made the case to *not* give taxis an exception time and again. Cressy gave an odd speech towards the end, it was obvious a deal had been made outside of chamber, the pro quo being Tory's 'impassioned' (complete with shiny plastic wrapping and patent shoes) speech for Cressy's cave on the taxi exception.

I have to question if Staff need counselling and therapy after appearing in council sessions. Credit to them for their patience in dealing with so many incompetents...

Getting back to exceptions...cars with four passengers, trucks with collapsed pedestrians in the back, a partridge in a pair of trees, and a cow jumping left over the Moon....all acting as "public transit" by the terms of some councillors and mayor...

I hope that city staff were given permission to make adjustments to the pilot to improve its performance without having to go back to council.

Evidently not, that came up a couple of times "pilot creep" it was called by Holyday a couple of times, but the answer was that (gist) "We will come back to Council for any changes needed".

 

[amnesiajune]

because there’s somehow inexplicably free... FREEEEEE (!!!!#$%) parking on King on weekends, its busiest time!

No there isn't. Parking is paid from 8 AM on Saturdays and 1 PM on Sundays until midnight

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Let's say another section of King Street becomes very slow for the streetcar, would there be another plan for a streetcar mall/transit priority?

 

[DSC]

Let's say another section of King Street becomes very slow for the streetcar, would there be another plan for a streetcar mall/transit priority?

Why not? The initial study area stretched further east and further west and the Report explained why the current blocks were selected. There are major problems with a lack of alternative routes west of Bathurst but the situation from Jarvis to River is similar to areas further west (in the current pilot study area) so it could probably also handle a 'mall'. At the consultations, several people suggested having Sherbourne as the east end of the pilot but Jarvis was selected, we will see what happens jusr east of Jarvis!

 

[crs1026]

I believe that question was asked in the Council debate, and both Byford and Keesmaat were enthusiastically in favour of more similar zones.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

[...]
Kristine Hubbard, operations manager for Beck Taxi, told the committee that cabs should be treated like streetcars and should be allowed to pass through intersections instead of being forced to turn at the end of blocks. She said that Beck dispatches about 50 cabs to King St. each day between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m.

“I do think we are part of the public transit system. I’ve always said that. Whenever the subway or streetcar or whatever goes down, we are getting the troops together to head down and help move people,” Hubbard said.

The city’s chief planner, Jennifer Keesmaat, disagreed. She said giving taxis the same consideration as transit vehicles would undermine the pilot. City transportation staff estimate that between one-quarter and one-third of the cars on King are taxis.

“Taxis are not public transit. They don’t even carry remotely the volume of people we carry on public transit. They’re not at the price point of public transit. Are they an important part of the movement system in the city? Yes. But are they public transit? Absolutely not,” Keesmaat said.

Asked whether the fact that the city was considering treating cabs like transit vehicles was a sign that Toronto is reluctant to take bold moves to improve transportation, she replied: “I think we’re getting stuck in some old thinking.”
[...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-king-st-pilot-project-cab-companies-say.html

 

[Rainforest]

Walking along King from Peter to Brant (3 blocks), I decided to count how many taxis were driving in the streetcar lane — because there’s somehow inexplicably free... FREEEEEE (!!!!#$%) parking on King on weekends, its busiest time! Forcing cars into the one streetcar lane. I could do this because of course, I could walk faster than the crawling traffic. The streetcars were packed with people who might as well be walking.

I counted 36 taxis, 28 cars and 7 streetcars in the westbound streetcar lane. If we took out 75% of those private cars — that’s generous — all of those taxis would still be causing the congestion. This exemption is going to prove fatal to the pilot. Taxis are going to continue driving in streetcar lanes, even during daytime, because this exemption sends the message that they’re “public transit” too and get to use the transit ROW. Private vehicles will just follow taxis through intersections and no amount of enforcement is going to prevent that because it’s not sustainable to have cops at every intersection 24/7.

I hope that city staff were given permission to make adjustments to the pilot to improve its performance without having to go back to council.

Those risks are hypothetical, let's see how it actually works.

And if the taxis are so evil, then they would keep breaking the rules even without getting any formal exception. We can as well give up on transit mall, ban all private cars, streetcars, and pedestrians on King, and allocate it entirely to taxis.

 

[Rainforest]

OK. Then exceptions should apply to cyclists too. And, and, and....

Sure, if there are cyclists that actually want to ride straight on King between 10 pm and 5 am, then why not.