King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[DSC]

@MetroMan , who lives on King St W would have a lot to say about that.

Like most of us here @MetroMan is not right all the time! Yes, there certainly are vehicles going through King and breaking the law but the traffic volumes REALLY are down considerably and to expect 100% compliance is unreasonable.

 

[MisterF]

Hopefully in the three years the design of the street is revised to make the expected driver behaviour intuitive and make it next to impossible to break the rules. The pilot design, which relies on sign pollution and heavy enforcement to make it work, is fundamentally flawed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If you only look for perfection, you’re going to find misery everywhere.

The most important thing is that car volume has dropped dramatically, and congestion slowing the streetcars is basically nonexistent. This is a fine stopgap until the permanent infrastructure is installed

 

[Jonny5]

If anything, the streetcars now seem to be going slower than ever down King, as though the schedules are still set on the assumption that the congestion is still there. Sure, you get an occasional driver who floors it in the morning, especially before 8:00 a.m., but after that, it's really not much to write home about because of the TTC's own scheduling.

Beyond that, travellling from King and Parliament to King and University each day still feels like a chore. The vehicles still hit most, if not all of the red lights. Often they will sit at the farside stops while people slowly and continuously trickle in. They still plod through the center of the financial district mid-day because there's now 100 taxis at all times between Bay and York and for whatever reason they seem to constantly be making u-turns at all points. They still slow for the stopped delivery vehicles in the curb lanes because they are so close to entering the envelop of the streetcar lane space. The drivers seem to be under orders to drop to 10 kp/h whenever they see pedestrians whom might cross the street.

 

[felix123]

If anything, the streetcars now seem to be going slower than ever down King, as though the schedules are still set on the assumption that the congestion is still there. Sure, you get an occasional driver who floors it in the morning, especially before 8:00 a.m., but after that, it's really not much to write home about because of the TTC's own scheduling.

Beyond that, travellling from King and Parliament to King and University each day still feels like a chore. The vehicles still hit most, if not all of the red lights. Often they will sit at the farside stops while people slowly and continuously trickle in. They still plod through the center of the financial district mid-day because there's now 100 taxis at all times between Bay and York and for whatever reason they seem to constantly be making u-turns at all points. They still slow for the stopped delivery vehicles in the curb lanes because they are so close to entering the envelop of the streetcar lane space. The drivers seem to be under orders to drop to 10 kp/h whenever they see pedestrians whom might cross the street.

Getting a driver who floors it in the morning is about the most satisfying thing you could ask for in your Toronto morning commute.

But savour it because it almost never happens.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Once a more permanent infrastructure configuration is built I expect compliance is going to only increase, especially if they can figure out some physical infrastructure at intersections that makes it clearer that cars have to turn right.

 

[DSC]

Once a more permanent infrastructure configuration is built I expect compliance is going to only increase, especially if they can figure out some physical infrastructure at intersections that makes it clearer that cars have to turn right.

Of course, figuring that out is not easy - as we have seen during the 'pilot phase'. Clearly concrete barriers in the curb lane are not enough and you really can't put them in the streetcar lane either and signage alone is clearly not enough.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Of course, figuring that out is not easy - as we have seen during the 'pilot phase'. Clearly concrete barriers in the curb lane are not enough and you really can't put them in the streetcar lane either and signage alone is clearly not enough.

Cobblestones between the streetcar tracks, as they used be. Nudge the cars off the tracks.

From link.

 

[adys123]

Cobblestones between the streetcar tracks, as they used be. Nudge the cars off the tracks.

From link.

Oh yeah! Granite Setts would do excellent in discouraging traffic, it's quite uncomfortable.
They could also do with a low curb with cutouts for the tracks.

 

[KevinT]

Cobblestones between the streetcar tracks, as they used be. Nudge the cars off the tracks.

From http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/Toronto/IBL/west_york.htm.

Hmm, I think you've got something there. I know they wouldn't go back to actual cobblestones for maintenance reasons, but I'll bet there's a patterned concrete design they could incorporate which would maximize driver discouragement.

 

[vic]

The Youtubes are full of wonderful retractable bollard videos.

 

[DSC]

Hmm, I think you've got something there. I know they wouldn't go back to actual cobblestones for maintenance reasons, but I'll bet there's a patterned concrete design they could incorporate which would maximize driver discouragement.

Do you guys not remember how cars still went up to and into the QQ streetcar tunnel even after the TTC dug fairly deep groves all along the tracks? FAR more bumpy than cobblestones.They then had to install gates which have (to date) stopped all (?) cars I think. I agree that most (all?) of the QQ tunnel folk were drunk or stoned but driving on a cobble-stoned street will simply make motorists say "those damned Toronto streets, do they never fix the potholes?"

 

[max]

Do you guys not remember how cars still went up to and into the QQ streetcar tunnel even after the TTC dug fairly deep groves all along the tracks? FAR more bumpy than cobblestones.They then had to install gates which have (to date) stopped all (?) cars I think. I agree that most (all?) of the QQ tunnel folk were drunk or stoned but driving on a cobble-stoned street will simply make motorists say "those damned Toronto streets, do they never fix the potholes?"

The more the design discourages drivers from using King the better, perfect compliance isn't a requirement here especially since there isn't a ban on cars. I suspect they want to maintain compatibility with buses which will limit their options, otherwise I'd have voted for those deep grooves, plastic bumpers in intersections that prevent straight travel and car traps along King.

 

[AHK]

My feeling is that any form of grooving or ribbing perpendicular to the King Street direction would be a non-starter. Toronto Fire Department, Police, and Ambulance services would not go for it. With the suspensions some of their vehicles have - it would be absolutely brutal in any emergency run.

 

[Jonny5]

My feeling is that any form of grooving or ribbing perpendicular to the King Street direction would be a non-starter. Toronto Fire Department, Police, and Ambulance services would not go for it. With the suspensions some of their vehicles have - it would be absolutely brutal in any emergency run.

And they seem to use King more than ever now that it's generally free of cars.