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King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

grey said:
There's no enforcement after ~9:15AM this week, at least east of Yonge. I've seen several vehicles passing through the intersections at Jarvis and Church, even squeezing past streetcars to do so. Traffic is extremely light, so it's not making much difference either way.
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As you say "Traffic is extremely light, so it's not making much difference either way." If this is so, why 'waste' police resources? (That is not to say that there should not be more enforcement but it should be used when the street is busy and many cars are illegally using the street.
 
DSC said:
As you say "Traffic is extremely light, so it's not making much difference either way." If this is so, why 'waste' police resources? (That is not to say that there should not be more enforcement but it should be used when the street is busy and many cars are illegally using the street.
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One reason for "red light" cameras.
 
W. K. Lis said:
One reason for "red light" cameras.
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There are a few functional parameters that would have to be addressed with the Red Light Cameras, but the wording I posted a few days back from the Ministry's own guide book on using intersection signals with a transit vertical white bar globe makes implementation possible by way of not specifically excluding it. A constant red light is permitted by the wording quoted, the complication for a Red Light Camera would be to delineate between those vehicles allowed to proceed on a red, and those that aren't. Bear in mind, that is already the case with the established and very successful hundred or so Red Light Cameras already operating in Toronto.
[...]
How do the red light cameras actually work?
The cameras have the ability to function as soon as a traffic light turns red (drivers who enter an intersection during a traffic light's amber phase will not be penalized, even if the light turns red as they are passing through). The cameras scan the approaching vehicles for any that appear to be moving at a speed not consistent with stopping, Browne said. The camera will take two time-stamped photographs of the vehicle: one is taken as the vehicle approaches the stop line and the second is taken as the vehicle moves through the intersection. The two images are snapped less than one second apart.

Vehicles making a left-hand turn during the red phase and vehicles making a right-hand turn, without stopping, during a red phase can also be issued a charge, he added.
What happens once the photos are taken?
Each set of photos is reviewed by provincial offence officers, who are expected to follow a list of criteria to determine whether or not there is enough evidence for the red light camera charges to stand up in court, Browne said. He says the officers look for a variety of elements, including confirming the date and time on the image, making sure the license plate is clear and legible, making sure the stop bar is visible and ensuring that the streets signs can be seen in the photo to verify the vehicle's location.

If the image checks off in every category, the individual the vehicle is registered under is mailed a fine. If it does not, charges cannot be issued.
[...]
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https://www.insidetoronto.com/news-...hould-know-about-toronto-s-red-light-cameras/

Why is there total silence from the City on the obvious need for Red Light Cameras, permanent enforcement of existing laws and by-laws, and the ultra-obvious need for "Toronto's third busiest transit route" to have an advanced state-of-the-art signalling, sensing and dispatch system *Whether the King Street Pilot is made permanent or not*?

Is there any transit file this Council and those preceding can't fug up?
 
Last edited:
steveintoronto said:
...
Why is there total silence from the City on the obvious need for Red Light Cameras, permanent enforcement of existing laws and by-laws, and the ultra-obvious need for "Toronto's third busiest transit route" to have an advanced state-of-the-art signalling, sensing and dispatch system *Whether the King Street Pilot is made permanent or not*?

Is there any transit file this Council and those preceding can't fug up?
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Likely the suburban auto-addicted Councillors wouldn't like something that they themselves might violate.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Likely the suburban auto-addicted Councillors wouldn't like something that they themselves might violate.
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I certainly agree with the gist of your point, but the Toronto experience for Red Light Cameras states otherwise: (or does it?)
By Ben SpurrTransportation Reporter
Mon., Jan. 16, 2017

Toronto’s red-light camera program is headed for a major expansion, a year after the devices appear to have resulted in a record number of charges against drivers.

Last week, Toronto officials announced plans that could see the number of cameras, currently installed at 77 locations across the city, effectively doubled. The expansion is being billed as part of the city’s new $80-million road safety plan, which Mayor John Tory has championed with the aim of eliminating traffic deaths and serious injuries.

“I think the objective here is to get people to slow down and drive safely in school zones, seniors zones, places like that, to stop this carnage that’s been happening on the roads and to get (the number of traffic deaths) down to zero,” Tory said at a press conference last Tuesday, speaking in support of the cameras.

Last year, 77 drivers, car passengers, pedestrians and cyclists were killed on Toronto’s streets, the highest number of traffic fatalities in more than a decade.

According to city transportation data obtained by the Star, the red-light cameras, which allow authorities to remotely catch and ticket drivers who run red lights, were on track last year to net the most charges in any year since the program began.
[...]
Michael Black, co-founder of pedestrian advocacy group Walk Toronto, said the money the cameras generate is definitely a plus.

“The beauty of safety cameras is they’re very effective and they also pay for themselves,” he said.

Black argued there are many elements of the road safety plan, which includes lower speed limits and turning prohibitions, that “simply won’t work without enforcement,” and that automated technology is the best way to make sure drivers follow the rules. A single camera can monitor an intersection much more effectively than a police officer — and at significantly lower cost.

Elliott Silverstein, manager of government relations for the Canadian Automobile Association’s South Central Ontario chapter, said more than 70 per cent of its members support the use of red-light cameras.

But Silverstein said the support is conditional on the cameras’ use as a safety measure and not a revenue stream. Funds collected from the cameras should be reinvested into safety initiatives, he argued, and the expansion of the program should be accompanied by public education efforts.

Lewis Smith, a spokesperson for the Canada Safety Council, said cities can combat the perception that cameras are a cash grab by giving drivers ample warning of where the devices are. In Toronto, all intersections that have cameras are signed.

“The important thing for cities to do, if the main goal is really prevention as opposed to punishment after the fact, is to make it very clear that there’s a red-light camera there,” Smith said.
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https://www.thestar.com/news/pedest...more-red-light-cameras-coming-to-toronto.html

So why the rank duplicity and silence on King Street? I'm not applying external logic to this, I'm applying *the logic the City and Mayor themselves espouse*!

If Council was hoping for the King Project to fail, they couldn't be much more effective about achieving it at this rate.
 
Right, I forgot about the taxis. Cancel the taxis. Then stick red arrows pointing in the parallel direction with King at all relevant intersections, add the extra phase for pedestrians (as an avid walker, I could care less) as you mention and watch compliance rates go up. Signs are easier to miss than signals and are exponentially more ignored.

I just wanted to bring it up because as a daily driver (due to work requirements) I can honestly say that most drivers in this town should be barred from driving and I despise them and their behaviour. I said despise and I mean it. I also see daily what other drivers get up to when they think they're special and/or clever and think specific signal restrictions would help immensely.
 
MTown said:
Right, I forgot about the taxis. Cancel the taxis. ...
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From link.

1229.jpg


We can have a traffic signal for just about anybody or anything. From link.
Mongolia%20-%20UB%20-%20Traffic%20Light%20(medium).jpg


It just depends upon the MTO and the powers-to-be to actually try and do something.
 
With these drivers, 60% of who shouldn't be driving?! You're mad, you'll have us all killed by confusing their inept minds. :p
 
dowlingm said:
City Councillor undermines City project:
https://twitter.com/Campbell4Ward4/status/948627909119561728
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The City and plebes ignore this at their peril. The City should have got in front of this from the start. They haven't a clue, been intoxicated on an average streetcar journey time saving of two minutes. For the amount of angst this has cost? That's pathetic.

Time to get serious, fund this adequately, *get the merchants on-side, they're essential allies* and for fug's sake, get some PR people involved, coz so far, this has been a disaster in terms of how *the third busiest route in Toronto* has been mismanaged and sold, even as a 'pilot project'.

I want this to work. Council sure isn't acting that way. They have the majority of motorists behind this as well as plebes. How in hell can they blow this? Just watch them, they're on their way to doing it...
 
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