King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[dowlingm]

Rode the King Street car today (CLRV) from Broadview to Bay. The lack of transit signal priority didn't help running time, but also I noticed most if not all people boarding from the front door despite presto/pass. Are operators reliably opening rear doors? Also: why move the stop at Church to far side if the car has to essentially stop to cross the intersection even if it does get a green?

 

[MetroMan]

It took me 10 minutes from Spadina to Bathurst tonight. The sheer amount of taxis was not helped by cars going straight through the intersection. Not a single cop in sight.

Then on the return home, it took me 6 minutes to move half a block halfway between Bathurst and Portland. So I got off and walked to Spadina. The streetcar was still stuck in traffic at Brant when I got to Spadina.

The taxi exemption quite simply breaks the King Street Pilot. It should never have been granted and should be revoked.

 

[micheal_can]

It took me 10 minutes from Spadina to Bathurst tonight. The sheer amount of taxis was not helped by cars going straight through the intersection. Not a single cop in sight.

Then on the return home, it took me 6 minutes to move half a block halfway between Bathurst and Portland. So I got off and walked to Spadina. The streetcar was still stuck in traffic at Brant when I got to Spadina.

The taxi exemption quite simply breaks the King Street Pilot. It should never have been granted and should be revoked.

Maybe the taxi exemption should be the same as the airport. As I understand that, not just anyone can drop off/pick up.

Mind you, I got to wonder what UBER drivers are doing.

 

[MetroMan]

how do you guys think they should prevent cars from going through after the pilot period is over. i think they should find a way to force cars into the right turn lane maybe by putting grass or another barrier in the left lane. possibly paving in between the streetcar tracks to allow for the narrower bikes to use the lane???. also they should raise the streetcar platform on the far side of each intersection to make sure cars arent able to go through once they remove the colorful barriers, it will make boarding streetcar easier too. the most important thing is to find a way to prevent cars from going through intersections that dont require a shit ton of enforcment, so anything to force them into the right lane would help.

For starters, I think that they picked the wrong model. It should have been alternating one way streets. Cars would never cross intersections because they’d be faced with no street to cross into.

But if they keep this model, the most effective hard infrastructure they can build to prevent illegal straight through traffic is to design the streetcar exclusive zone (yellow stripes) at the end of each block as a raised island curb with the tracks cutting through. This will force cars into the turning lane.

Once in the turn lane, it’s harder to double back and cut into the only open lane in the centre.

 

[MetroMan]

Maybe the taxi exemption should be the same as the airport. As I understand that, not just anyone can drop off/pick up.

Mind you, I got to wonder what UBER drivers are doing.

They’re part of the cars who are going illegally through intersections. They have to have an Uber logo on their window as a part of their licensing and I’ve been seeing them cross illegally.

 

[animatronic]

We need to put an effort to street beautification. Complete repavement of the roads, some investment in prettying up the sidewalks or at least cleaning much of it, and more street furniture. The planters are a good start.

That seems expensive and permanent - what if they get it wrong? Maybe they should figure out the best model by first running a trial of some kind.

 

[TOareaFan]

Maybe the taxi exemption should be the same as the airport. As I understand that, not just anyone can drop off/pick up.

Mind you, I got to wonder what UBER drivers are doing.

Anyone can drop you off at the airport.......cab with airport permit/cab without airport permit/Uber/aunt Myriam.....picking up is a different manner.

Given the difficulty enforcing the existing rules on King, not sure how we we ever enforce airport style taxi rules.

 

[steveintoronto]

Curbs for the streetcar stops that are part of the widened sidewalks. Barriers in between the streetcar tracks that can be raised/lowered for a bus/streetcar and delivery/local vehicles can buy/rent a device that allows access.

Melbourne's central core section of the Bourke Mall has already proven the model, albeit they're still working on bettering transit priority lights with AI and other systems I posted in detail in this string a few days back. Toronto has no excuse to be so unaware of working options. Melbourne (and now other Oz cities copying) faced all the problems Toronto did, save for idiot Councils and drivers who haven't a clue, Toronto's specialty.

Permits are used extensively for the locals needing access, all posted and detailed in this string. And bicycles aren't permitted in the core section, for reasons that seem to escape many Toronto cyclists. There just isn't the space, and they interfere with pedestrians trying to access the trams from....wait for it...built out sidewalks to the trams.

Here's the section where allowed:

And where banned:

And another where banned and showing sidewalks built out on platforms to the trams:

A detailed but copyrighted pic here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielbowen/31641115093/in/photostream/

Note that in the core section, cycle parking is available, but walking the bike to and from there is required.

 

[pstogios]

It took me 10 minutes from Spadina to Bathurst tonight. The sheer amount of taxis was not helped by cars going straight through the intersection. Not a single cop in sight.

Then on the return home, it took me 6 minutes to move half a block halfway between Bathurst and Portland. So I got off and walked to Spadina. The streetcar was still stuck in traffic at Brant when I got to Spadina.

You are recapitulating what I witness each and every Friday and Saturday night at the Spadina/King intersection. It has been an outrageous clusterf*** for years and now it’s clear the pilot isn’t making it any better. This is ridiculous and we all need to raise our voices and express ourselves to city council.

 

[steveintoronto]

This is ridiculous and we all need to raise our voices and express ourselves to city council.

Do you honestly think that they'd listen? Show us your money...

 

[Megaton327]

For starters, I think that they picked the wrong model. It should have been alternating one way streets. Cars would never cross intersections because they’d be faced with no street to cross into.

But if they keep this model, the most effective hard infrastructure they can build to prevent illegal straight through traffic is to design the streetcar exclusive zone (yellow stripes) at the end of each block as a raised island curb with the tracks cutting through. This will force cars into the turning lane.

Once in the turn lane, it’s harder to double back and cut into the only open lane in the centre.

Unfortunately emergency services would never even entertain that notion, and I've seen TONS of cars get in the right turn lane, put their signal on, slow down, then suddenly speed up and go straight through and cut back into the left lane.

It's really just a shoddy model. Alternating one-ways did indeed make far more sense.

 

[crs1026]

A rumble strip or two in the streetcar path would not impede emergency vehicles, but it would certainly remind motorists that they are where they don't belong. But at the end of the day, even that inconvenience won't deter the determined.

I wonder what it would take for us transit fanatics to start a crowdfunding effort to obtain some pay-duty cops. 50,000 504 passengers donating even a dime a week might pay for enough enforcement to make a difference.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

A rumble strip or two in the streetcar path would not impede emergency vehicles, but it would certainly remind motorists that they are where they don't belong. But at the end of the day, even that inconvenience won't deter the determined.

I wonder what it would take for us transit fanatics to start a crowdfunding effort to obtain some pay-duty cops. 50,000 504 passengers donating even a dime a week might pay for enough enforcement to make a difference.

- Paul

Streetcar tracks used to have cobblestones between the tracks, but the automobile forced the city to smooth things out. Should return to using them. Use smooth surfaces for where the bicycles are to follow and use.

 

[rbt]

I wonder what it would take for us transit fanatics to start a crowdfunding effort to obtain some pay-duty cops. 50,000 504 passengers donating even a dime a week might pay for enough enforcement to make a difference.

I would be surprised if 6 full-time officers were unable to provide the bulk of their own salaries as derived from ticket revenue.

A team of 6 would allow 2 to be on location 7 days a week during operating hours.

 

[steveintoronto]

Melbourne's Bourke Street Mall has no problem with emergency vehicles: (even after a terrorist attack)

The first of Melbourne's new permanent bollards will be installed in the CBD, 10 months after the Bourke Street attack.

The stainless steel bollards will be installed at the Swanston and Elizabeth street corners of the Bourke Street Mall, as part of the government's $10 million CBD security upgrade.

Fixed planter boxes will be placed in other areas of the mall to help protect against vehicle attacks.

"With 720 tram movements and up to 75,000 pedestrian movements per day, as well as necessary access for emergency vehicles and deliveries, a 'ring of steel' configuration would not have been possible at Bourke Street Mall," Melbourne Lord Mayor Robert Doyle said.

"The emphasis is on creating comprehensive safe zones to protect people from a hostile vehicle attack."

The bollards have been crash rated and can withstand significant vehicle force. They will replace temporary barriers installed in June.

Bourke Street Mall is the first of nine sites to receive permanent protective barriers. The remaining locations will be upgraded over the next year.

Minister for Police Lisa Neville said while there was no way to completely eliminate risk, "we are doing everything we can to keep pedestrians safe".

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/b...llards-installed-in-mall-20171119-gzojb6.html

But of course, this isn't Toronto, incapable of learning from others...