King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I view this through the eyes of someone that measures risk a lot.......when someone lends money they are measuring the likelihood of default and and the probability of loss (financial cost) in the event of default.

I think you an apply that to situations like King....if you are not going to enforce regularly, increase the penatlty of getting caught.....so drivers will be measuring the risk (likelihood) of getting caught....and the financial penalty of getting caught.

Even if the chance of getting caught breaking the rules is low.....if the cost for breaking them is very high you will get a different result.

Though you can't change laws on the fly; and there are limits to the degree of punishment you can mete out before you hit some brickwall (constitutional, political). You can't really argue about constant enforcement however.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Though you can't change laws on the fly; and there are limits to the degree of punishment you can mete out before you hit some brickwall (constitutional, political). You can't really argue about constant enforcement however.

AoD

True about changing on the fly....but you can establish special rules for "zones"....we do it now for school zones and construction zones where penalties for various driving offenses are increased within those zones......surely it would not be that hard for a council to pass a by-law creating "transit favoured" zones and to state that in such zones fines for driving offenses are doubled/tripled/whatevered .

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

True about changing on the fly....but you can establish special rules for "zones"....we do it now for school zones and construction zones where penalties for various driving offenses are increased within those zones......surely it would not be that hard for a council to pass a by-law creating "transit favoured" zones and to state that in such zones fines for driving offenses are doubled/tripled/whatevered .

It's hard enough to get this pilot project started.

AoD

 

[Edward Skira]

All I have to say.

 

[ADRM]

The weekend should be interesting, both from a business and traffic standpoint.

With out of towners not knowing the rules and locals avoiding king it could turn into a ghost town.

All to save weekday commuters 3 minutes!

All I have to say.

View attachment 128167

As I saw someone on Twitter point out last week, that ad is but two Sharpied letters away from a solid marketing fail.

 

[micheal_can]

As I saw someone on Twitter point out last week, that ad is but two Sharpied letters away from a solid marketing fail.

I thought 3 letters...

 

[MetroMan]

Improve the signage (as is apparently underway) and much of the problem will disappear.

I haven’t seen any improved signage. Where did you hear about this?

At minimum, large — preferably illuminated — signs need to replace the little ones that are barely noticeable in the day, and practically invisible at night.

Ideally, they’ll install transit and cycling lights and keep the through light red. That way, red light camera infractions are in effect and drivers will quickly learn when they start getting $300 fines in the mail. But this has been discussed to death. What changes have you heard about @DSC?

 

[scott]

Apologies if this was posted before, but I didn't see it yet:

https://twitter.com/nithyavijaya/status/934080108540805120

> Mean travel time is down 4-5 minutes on #KingStreetPilot AND variability in travel times has decreased. Increased reliability knowing how long your trip will be is the most valuable

http://sausy.ca/2017/11/king-street-transit-pilot-project/

 

[DSC]

I haven’t seen any improved signage. Where did you hear about this?

I posted a reply I got from the King Street Pilot team above. They said they were working on signage; it IS a 1 year pilot. so it really is unreasonable to expect immediate and instant tweaks.

 

[Sandpit]

As I saw someone on Twitter point out last week, that ad is but two Sharpied letters away from a solid marketing fail.

Fail? Or win? In any case, we already have "GO Old Cummer" and that bus terminal map at Downsview.

 

[steveintoronto]

I haven’t seen any improved signage. Where did you hear about this?

At minimum, large — preferably illuminated — signs need to replace the little ones that are barely noticeable in the day, and practically invisible at night.

Ideally, they’ll install transit and cycling lights and keep the through light red. That way, red light camera infractions are in effect and drivers will quickly learn when they start getting $300 fines in the mail. But this has been discussed to death. What changes have you heard about ?

I posted a reply I got from the King Street Pilot team above. They said they were working on signage;

And I posted absolute rebuttals on two of the points. The City just doesn't know what it's doing on this it seems.

it IS a 1 year pilot. so it really is unreasonable to expect immediate and instant tweaks.

Jeezuz! All the more reason to get it right sooner than later then! Council was warned by the head of the TPS Board *months ago*. How much time and authority do they need to 'get it'?

As for 'signs'...when it comes to turning ones, that's under the Province's diktat, enacted by the HTA. Size and type are for the Province to decide, not the City, although the City can choose from what the Province allows.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900615

 

[TransitBart]

Could not a variation on red light cameras be used to detect vehicles going straight through? That would be without labour cost, and enforce 100% compliance, no?

 

[steveintoronto]

Could not a variation on red light cameras be used to detect vehicles going straight through?

A "variation" is unnecessary. The Red Light Camera legislation is fully applicable no matter what is done with the red light, on continously, flashing or sequenced. Once the red light is on, the legislation kicks in. I've itemized it in detail from both the City and Provincial websites.

That would be without labour cost, and enforce 100% compliance, no?

Close. That's up to the drivers, but it is almost 100% effective in catching *cars*...not *drivers*. The details are all discussed in posts prior. It's the owner of the car who is ticketed. It can be fought and won in court, but the same pertains to all offences.

Sure as hell it will be much more effective than cops randomly picking blatant morons...and 24/7. And at the cost of $100,000 per intersection, a bargain since the legislation gives most of that to the City.

*Even if* the "Pilot" fails, this is still necessary on King, and will pay for itself. Many times over...but hey, that's a fiscal model Council is immune to.

 

[TransitBart]

A "variation" is unnecessary. The Red Light Camera legislation is fully applicable no matter what is done with the red light, on continously, flashing or sequenced. Once the red light is on, the legislation kicks in. I've itemized it in detail from both the City and Provincial websites.

Close. That's up to the drivers, but it is almost 100% effective in catching *cars*...not *drivers*. The details are all discussed in posts prior. It's the owner of the car who is ticketed. It can be fought and won in court, but the same pertains to all offences.

Sure as hell it will be much more effective than cops randomly picking blatant morons...and 24/7. And at the cost of $100,000 per intersection, a bargain since the legislation gives most of that to the City.

*Even if* the "Pilot" fails, this is still necessary on King, and will pay for itself. Many times over...but hey, that's a fiscal model Council is immune to.

I do understand that cameras catch cars. Fine by me. We are all upset by the impunity of the current situatin.

If you’re old enough to own a car, you’re old enough to get a fine. You spins the wheel; you takes your chances. Or you follow the rules.

 

[steveintoronto]

I do understand that cameras catch cars. Fine by me. We are all upset by the impunity of the current situatin.

If you’re old enough to own a car, you’re old enough to get a fine. You spins the wheel; you takes your chances. Or you follow the rules.

Here's the City's blurb on them (you'd think they'd get their own message, but hey...)

A red light camera is a type of traffic enforcement camera that captures an image of a vehicle which has entered an intersection in spite of the traffic signal indicating red (during the red phase). By automatically photographing vehicles that run red lights, the photo is evidence that assists authorities in their enforcement of traffic laws. Generally the camera is triggered when a vehicle enters the intersection (passes the stop-bar) after the traffic signal has turned red.

Currently, there are over 150 red light cameras operated by the participating municipalities. In Toronto alone, 77 red light cameras are in operation. Changing driver behaviour, reducing collisions and saving lives are the key reasons the cameras are used.

https://www.toronto.ca/services-pay...nagement/pavement-markings/red-light-cameras/

In the City's case, don't let the left hand know what the left hand is doing...