W. K. Lis
Superstar
Illegal in Toronto:
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steveintoronto
Superstar
Just tripped across this: Power of the (effectively Minister) to amend the HTA by "filing" it (no passage through Legislature necessary) was mentioned prior. This spells it out for a "Pilot Project" in definitive terms:
Highway Traffic Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8 (current)
Well Mr Tory, Your Worship, Sir. I'd say you have a few calls to make...
I'm still searching other aspects of the HTA and related Acts, but this hangs Tory on the petard of his own ego.
The worst part of this, the very worst, is that it will give Il Duce reason to drop his soap box in the middle of King Street, to make an announcement, or ten. In this instance...that's worth the price, as he'd have to make sure there's sufficient safety built into this so that he doesn't get hit by a streetcar.
On second thoughts, don't warn him about that....make it a surprise.
And btw: Where was Queen's Park and City Hall/Council on this when establishing the Bloor Bike Lanes? It was officially a "Pilot Project" too...
Highway Traffic Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8 (current)
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08?_ga=2.201829201.156985047.1511735271-283584986.1511735271
Well Mr Tory, Your Worship, Sir. I'd say you have a few calls to make...
I'm still searching other aspects of the HTA and related Acts, but this hangs Tory on the petard of his own ego.
The worst part of this, the very worst, is that it will give Il Duce reason to drop his soap box in the middle of King Street, to make an announcement, or ten. In this instance...that's worth the price, as he'd have to make sure there's sufficient safety built into this so that he doesn't get hit by a streetcar.
On second thoughts, don't warn him about that....make it a surprise.
And btw: Where was Queen's Park and City Hall/Council on this when establishing the Bloor Bike Lanes? It was officially a "Pilot Project" too...
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TransitBart
Senior Member
Why is this surprising? Two weeks is a trend. A small business can see the future after a couple of weeks.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Huh? Based on what methodology? Building ant-hills?
And Sarah Palin can see Russia from her front door...
These businesses have absolutely nothing to make their case on at this point in time. I blame it on my wearing Argyle socks on the wrong feet for two days running, and sneezing while having hiccups. I bet it's those Korean bakers from Bloor Street undercutting King Street bakers...
TransitBart
Senior Member
Said like someone who has never run a business nor made a cash flow.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I rode a Bikeshare bike Riverdale Farm to St. James Cathedral and Roy Thompson Hall today and saw at least four cars violate the King St. rules. One car just followed a streetcar close behind all the way to Roy Thompson Hall and beyond.
DSC
Superstar
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Yes, some drivers are a bit slow to get with the program but the street has FAR fewer cars and streetcars move about as fast as they can. Would more enforcement stop more cars: of course. Would having no cars make the streetcars go faster: probably not. The secret is to have enough enforcement to keep the street fairly empty of illegal cars not necessarily to catch 100% of the culprits.
AHK
Senior Member
We live in the area. Forno Cultura was one of the businesses cited in the Toronto Star article on the impact of the changes on its business. All I can say is that the times I walked by today, from the sidewalk, I have never seen it busier. Passed by six times - five times it was busy, the last time was after it was closed and the staff was cleaning up - I will agree, not busy then.
I would be very interested to see year over year, same time last year, comparisons....
MetroMan
Senior Member
I asked one of my contacts at City Hall about the lack of compliance with the no through signs and they said that the Transportation Dept. is already planning to put up new signs, likely bigger versions of the originals and verbal “No Through Traffic” signs.
I don’t think they get it. It’s not the size of the signs that matter, it’s that drivers place their convenience over the rules, specially in a city where they routinely get away with it.
Physical changes that make it difficult to circumvent the rules are needed.
The single biggest change other than getting rid of the green light, is preventing cars from driving on to the streetcar zone at the end of each block and forcing them into the right turn lane.
This can be done by installing plastic bollards, narrowing the roadway to streetcar width. It would also help to texture the road in these zones with bumps. Paint alone doesn’t work.
Once in the turn lane, we have to keep them there and force them right. Some cars go into the right turn lane but then cut into the centre lane to go forward. Extending the N-S median would accomplish this. A car in the turn lane would be met with a wall. They’d have to turn.
I don’t think they get it. It’s not the size of the signs that matter, it’s that drivers place their convenience over the rules, specially in a city where they routinely get away with it.
Physical changes that make it difficult to circumvent the rules are needed.
The single biggest change other than getting rid of the green light, is preventing cars from driving on to the streetcar zone at the end of each block and forcing them into the right turn lane.
This can be done by installing plastic bollards, narrowing the roadway to streetcar width. It would also help to texture the road in these zones with bumps. Paint alone doesn’t work.
Once in the turn lane, we have to keep them there and force them right. Some cars go into the right turn lane but then cut into the centre lane to go forward. Extending the N-S median would accomplish this. A car in the turn lane would be met with a wall. They’d have to turn.
micheal_can
Senior Member
If they cant force drivers from not going down to the Queens Quay station, how do you expect them not to go straight through?
MetroMan
Senior Member
That’s like 1 or 2 drivers a year. Yesterday I counted 46 drivers going through University in just under 10 minutes.
micheal_can
Senior Member
... and how long has that ramp been there?
With better signage, better signalling, and more enforcement, this too will pass.
nfitz
Superstar
What do 503 and 504 buses do?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
But they do stop them. So far no one has gotten to the station because the surface stops them, in their tracks so to speak.
The trick is have the surface stop drivers before they disrupt the streetcars.
EDIT: Dammit, I was wrong. These two made it all the way to Queen Quay Station.
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MetroMan
Senior Member
The KingStreetPilot needs to expedite pedestrian improvements or it’s going to lose the PR battle with businesses complaining about the empty streets.
While it’s true that people go into businesses, not cars, traffic on King created the appaearance of it being busy. The empty streets with the occasional streetcar zooming by is not going to help the cause. The empty curb lanes need to be filled very soon before opposition to the pilot calcifies.
While it’s true that people go into businesses, not cars, traffic on King created the appaearance of it being busy. The empty streets with the occasional streetcar zooming by is not going to help the cause. The empty curb lanes need to be filled very soon before opposition to the pilot calcifies.