John Tory Speech - His plans for a strong Toronto

[ganjavih]

I ain't no fan of Harper, but how is he a bigot?

 

[andreapalladio]

His policy is to remove equality rights from gays and lesbians. Homophobia is bigotry.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

His policy is to remove equality rights from gays and lesbians. Homophobia is bigotry.

Let's not throw the phobia label around too quickly. A true phobia is defined as a fear or hatred of something, such as fear of cat (Ailurophobia), of spiders (Arachnephobia), of men (Arrhenphobia), etc.

We have no evidence that Harper either hates or fear homosexuals. I would therefore define his policy to remove equality as promoting discrimination or exclusion, and certainly a contravention of rights, but until the evidence says so, not homophobia.

 

[building babel]

Homophobia is an irrational fear of homosexuals, a powerful force stalking the world, which unscrupulous politicians harness for their own personal gain.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Abeja:

We have no evidence that Harper either hates or fear homosexuals. I would therefore define his policy to remove equality as promoting discrimination or exclusion, and certainly a contravention of rights, but until the evidence says so, not homophobia.

And what forces would drive someone to remove equality, promoting discrimination or exclusion other than hate?

AoD

 

[building babel]

Fear.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

And what forces would drive someone to remove equality, promoting discrimination or exclusion other than hate?

We'd have to ask Harper that I suppose, as I don't know what motivates him.

I do not honestly believe that from the beginning of Canada to recent times, where we did not have SSM, that this policy was driven by hate, but more so by indifference or ignorance of the SSM issue. I also do not believe that most of the MPs who last year voted against SSM did so out of hatred or fear of homosexuals, but more so of a belief in what they, wrongfully or not, see as traditional Canadian foundations. I may not agree with them, but I don't believe this was for the most part hate or fear motivated, though every party has its extremists of course.

 

[building babel]

Employment equity is based on removing discriminatory barriers and expanding employment opportunities to individuals who are members of groups that face barriers to full employment. Unlike homophobia, it is not based on fear or hatred.

 

[building babel]

Those "traditional" foundations have been increasingly shaken up for many years, starting with the decriminalization of homosexual acts between consenting adults in the 1960's. The opposition to extending basic rights - including the right to marry and the complete removal of all barriers to equality for gays and lesbians - is homophobic.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

> Re: John Tory Speech - His plans for a strong Toronto

"Unlike homophobia, it is not based on fear or hatred."

That's my point, the motivation for discriminatory and unequal policies from government are not by default based on phobias (hatred or fears), as was suggested above.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Abeja:

If one is indifferent about the issue, one wouldn't go about putting it in their election platform.

With regards to the "beliefs", just what is the motivation behind them such that it necessitates denial of equality rights and approval of discriminatory measures? Hate and fear.

AoD

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

denial of equality rights and approval of discriminatory measures?

It's not always fear or hatred motivated. Let's look at afirmative action employment policies, for example. The Toronto Police, FD, etc. will give unequal and arguably unfair preference to certain job candidates based on race, gender and other characteristics that go beyond simple job capability. This discrimination and denial of equality is not done out of hatred or fear of POWF (plain old white folks) but instead is done to rapidly alter the face of these organizations to better represent the city's population, and thus rapidly reverse the percieved previous discrimination. Just because discriminatory measures are approved, does not make them by default based on hate or fear.

Getting back to the SSM issue, I imagine many of those who voted against SSM did so out their view that their view of society should be protected, not out of fear or hatred for those that want to change the society. Much as those who would want to enact discriminatory hiring practices want to make their version of society the norm, not out of hatred or fear.

That said, I'm sure there are red neck true homophobes out there in governance, which is why we have elections, to rid ourselves of those that we don't approve of.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Abeja:

Getting back to the SSM issue, I imagine many of those who voted against SSM did so out their view that their view of society should be protected, not out of fear or hatred for those that want to change the society.

Society should be protected from what, and why? Such a logic requires an "other" that is somehow considered to be undesirable, and that by itself is fear and/or hatred.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Re: > Re: John Tory Speech - His plans for a strong Tor

Abeja:

First off, using the example of affirmative action is rather misleading considering such a measure is used to correct bias/discrimination in the first place.

Second, it still doesn't illustrate how opposition on the issue of SSM doesn't boil down to fear and hate of "the other".

AoD

 

[building babel]

Re: > Re: John Tory Speech - His plans for a strong Tor

Employment equity is not discriminatory, inequitable, or motivated by irrational fear. It is about removing barriers to employment.

Homophobia is an irrational fear which some politicians pander to for electoral gain.