xmyth_
Senior Member
“I mean it’s a street Michael, how long does it take to revitalize?”
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John Street Revitalization
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Until the end of 2031, according to this report to the January meeting of TEYCC:
From the above:
^^^^ unnecessary duplication of costs due to all the delays
xmyth_
Senior Member
Reminds me of the report I read that talked about extending a streetcar line down Commissioners st to the leslieville barns. And it’s like “oh that’ll be another 50yrs or so”
And I was like… you mean down a completely straight street currently with minimal traffic and few businesses and zero residences? 50yrs for that?
Can we not punch logistics for this stuff into an LLM and come up with quicker solutions? I swear, this is when I want a municipal minded ai running simulations on the side, demonstrating all the human problems holding up these projects.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
I find it very hard to believe that YongeTomorrow, ReImagine Yonge, John St renewal, and Queens Quay E improvements will all be constructed in the same timeframe.
It seems more like the city is conveniently moving all of these streetscape projects to the same range of dates 3-5 years out just to avoid commitment.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The report does indicated a realistic path to construction that would be difficult to accelerate from this point. These projects need ~2 years for detailed design and procurement and this is fairly consistent across municipalities.
That said - the fact that they have not done any of this work already since this project was envisioned in 2009 is problematic. The city did preliminary design in 2016 and sat on it for a full decade. This should have been done detail design in 2018 with construction done by 2020. But the City thought they could save a few bucks by timing it with Mirvish-Gehry's project and getting Great Gulf to pay for part of it.. so they punted it down the road for another decade to try to chase a few dollars of savings that didn't even materialize.
Some of the others are clearly being punted for political reasons. ReImagine Yonge has clearly been punted to 2027 for initial design changes to avoid the municipal election next year. The fact that this sets the entire project back 2-3 years is of course ignored entirely. Staff are waiting on YongeTomorrow to wait for the OL to be done.
The problem with each project is that each project has a 'reason' for being delayed. Whenever there is a reason to delay, the city slams the delay button until the stars can align perfectly. And the problem with these projects is that there is so many moving parts that the stars never align perfectly.. so they get delayed, delayed, and delayed again. And you see it on everything, plus a whole lot of project mismanagement and misidentification of critical path items thrown in.. and nothing happens.
Any other organization running projects like these would find a solution instead. Oh, you think you could save a few bucks on one block? Then procure everything but that block. Too politically contentious? too bad, needs to get done. Conflicts with the subway construction? Do everything but that block and build that block when the subway is done. Etc..
xmyth_
Senior Member
I’d love a reasonable discussion about these processes though. Because if it's “we spent two years to choose this bench to put here, that we will replace with a cheaper version once it’s initially broken and vandalized” - then what are we doing.
I loved stumbling across Sherbourne Commons when it was a brand new addition just west of Corus Quay. It seemed brilliantly designed, and I had no idea at the time it was being built. So I couldn’t appreciate the years of planning that went into it.
But a decade later- does anyone do a post mortem to see how it’s held up? Issues that arose? Common issues in planning, design, materials etc that can be extrapolated into future projects elsewhere?
If it took two years for WT to decide where to put a bench on Sherbourne, there should be replicable lessons learned there that should shorten bench placement on John st, no?
Also. Just put stuff in and see what happens. This shouldn’t be so hard. Just pretend Scotiabank theatre is another collection of 80 storey towers already and get on with it
I loved stumbling across Sherbourne Commons when it was a brand new addition just west of Corus Quay. It seemed brilliantly designed, and I had no idea at the time it was being built. So I couldn’t appreciate the years of planning that went into it.
But a decade later- does anyone do a post mortem to see how it’s held up? Issues that arose? Common issues in planning, design, materials etc that can be extrapolated into future projects elsewhere?
If it took two years for WT to decide where to put a bench on Sherbourne, there should be replicable lessons learned there that should shorten bench placement on John st, no?
Also. Just put stuff in and see what happens. This shouldn’t be so hard. Just pretend Scotiabank theatre is another collection of 80 storey towers already and get on with it
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WalkieScorchie
Active Member
Some photos of the aforementioned street resurfacing at King and John in progress today. I wonder if they will actually follow through on the installation of a "paver-like material" at the crosswalks.
mrxbombastic
Active Member
A quick "shave and pave" job is what we are getting here at this intersection only. It's laughable when the focal area around Adelaide-richmond with the bars/restos is in a miserable cratered state.
I have a feeling the city is deferring to see if DoFo will be out of office and they can go back to the pedestrian focused designs, but perhaps that too benevolent on my part.
The city has collected millions in DCs from all these developments and the public sidewalks and streetscapes have remained abysmal. What are the DCs/s37 for if not for paying for growth related infrastructure like improved roads and sidewalks? But sure let's add a tiny 'park' and throw up a quick piece of public art, paid for from s37 anyways. None of these are bad on their own, but costs only go up and the priorities are are divorced from the tangible things that make a real difference.
As someone who lives in the area and regularly tempts fate with twisted ankles and popped bike tires on poor pavement, the lack of any urgency from the city to get this moving is ridiculous. You'd think the last thing we want to show the FIFA world is a crumbling streetscape!
A shave and pave on Peter and John from King to Richmond would have been the least we should do!
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Ford has done nothing to prevent this project - his legislation only prevents bike lanes, not pedestrianization projects.
Northern Light
Superstar
Who are you answering with this?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
mrxbombastic
Active Member
Bill 212(?) restricts modification of vehicle lanes to other purposes which hampers pedestrianization efforts. I recall the original plan included lane reductions, no?
Perhaps I'm wrong and happy to be corrected!
The City has been the key party dragging their feet, to be sure.
Perhaps I'm wrong and happy to be corrected!
The City has been the key party dragging their feet, to be sure.
Northern Light
Superstar
Bill 212 allowed the province to prohibit removing vehicle lanes for 'other prescribed purposes' (meaning those regulated by the Minister); but said regulations have not been enacted to this point.
So currently, the only restriction is removing travel lanes for the purpose of providing bike lanes.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
And even within that scope, many municipalities are still proceeding with bike lane projects (especially outside of Toronto) where traffic impacts are less and they don't think they will get in trouble from the Ministry for it..
daptive
Senior Member
John Street REVITALIZED
Jokes aside, this is actually really nice and should be bare minimum throughout the city. The entire neighbourhood has had a lot of its sidewalks replaced and while they look good for new concrete sidewalks (at least before the saw and asphalt comes out) I wish we took the time to refresh our sidewalk standards. Cities in Australia have such nice pavers.