I've seen the future — as T.O. goes broke

[maxy505]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Well maybe you guys are not homeowners. Buy why should we saddle more tax onto our residents? So that Toronto taxes become like New York, where people pay 10,000 a year in taxes for a regular house?

Are you even a homeowner?

I pay $2,500 a year in taxes. I have no problem paying $2,700 or even $3,000 if it means a well run, clean and safe city. And New Yorkers do not pay $10,000 in taxes on a "regular house".

 

[Mike in TO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Markham council approved the towns $269 million capital and operational budget a couple of weeks ago, along with a residential property tax increase of 4.88%.

The increased tax rate is calculated to amount to an additional $36.04 on an average Markham home assesse at $403,000 in 2005. Last year, the average Markham home paid about $3,970 in total property taxes.

Newmarket council recently approved its' operating and capital budgets along with a 3.9% residential tax increase. Based on the average residential property assessment of $304,000 for 2005, the nex rate is calculated to cost an additional $39 per household.

 

[miketoronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Ed007Toronto, don't you live in a condo? If you do, what you pay in taxes is way to expensive. Why should someone pay that much in taxes for a condo?

My parents pay the same amount for a house.

Also Ed007Toronto, yes New Yorkers do pay alot. My cousins lived in a New York City suburb, and had a normal house worth around $300,000 and they where paying over 10,000 a year in taxes.

I am sorry, but the last thing we want is Toronto to get that bad, where people are paying way to much.

The first thing this city has to do is limit its expenses.
First order is council, which does not need to spend as much money as they do to run the city councillors offices, etc.

Why should Toronto City residents be the ones who pay for everything, when many of the services we fund are regional?

Its time the 905 kicked in money to help run the Toronto Zoo, and other services regional residents enjoy.

Toronto also takes care of all the metro regions poor and troubled people. I know the 905 does pool some money in for that. But Toronto is still stuck with more expenses then area municipalities, and other cities in Ontario. And something has to give. We can not fund this all through the property tax.

This is turning right into the same kind of tax problems American cities are in. A report just found that the poor residents who make up the majority of residents in Cincinnati city, are paying the cost of regional transit service, while the suburbs get a free ride.

Why should the central city have to bore the whole cost.

Make Richmond Hill spend some money on low income housing and welfare, instead of sending all their residents our way, when they are not making $80,000.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Then they pay too little, given the services a house requires.

 

[miketoronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

My parents use to pay more in taxes but a couple years ago our taxes went down along with most of suburban Toronto, when the Mike Harris government redid the taxes, that saw inner city residents have their taxes increase and suburban residents taxes decrease, due to current value.

There are some other areas Toronto should be getting money.

The Town of Markham for example should be paying half the cost for the 53 Steeles East bus, and Vaughan should be paying half the cost of the Steeles West bus.

 

[building babel]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Given the services a house requires it is an absurd system. Small houses like mine on small downtown Prime Babelvale lots ( in desirable neighbourhoods where house prices have risen rapidly ) pay more while larger houses on larger, less economically serviced mikescarboroughville lots see their taxes reduced.

 

[EnviroTO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

If you believe the 905 should pay for TTC routes along the border and facilities within Toronto then the alternate arguement can be made that Toronto should pay part of the costs of all the bus routes run by the 905 into the city and other facilities in the 905 which people from the 416 use. I say leave it the way it is.

My parents use to pay more in taxes but a couple years ago our taxes went down along with most of suburban Toronto, when the Mike Harris government redid the taxes, that saw inner city residents have their taxes increase and suburban residents taxes decrease, due to current value.

Really makes sense doesn't it that after downloading some residents would pay less taxes, especially in the areas most expensive to service. Maybe Toronto should find a new way to set the tax rate similar to Kingston and Ottawa where different areas pay different rates based on the cost of services in those areas.

 

[miketoronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

EnviroTO you could never have different tax rates. The residents of Toronto who live in the mostly suburban sectors would never vote in a mayor who would impose higher taxes on the suburban sectors.

When our taxes went down, and my sisters taxes(she lives in the inner city) went up, I wrote a letter to the Scarborough Mirror saying the taxes should go back to the way they where with suburban residents paying higher taxes since it costs more to service the suburban areas. Well that set off a chain of letters from Scarborough residents saying they pay enough taxes, and that the tax decrease was what Scarborough needed, because we where paying higher taxes for the last 30 years while inner city residents got a cheaper ride.

 

[Mislav]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

I say we close the Toronto Police Force. That will eliminate the deficit all at once. Let's have the OPP take over.

You're joking? Correct me if I'm wrong isn't the OPP's main responsibility handing out speeding tickets hence patrolling the highways? I don't believe they have the proper experience to deal with policing issues in a highly urban area such as Tornto.

 

[maxy505]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Can anybody prove that it costs more to service the suburbs? It's far from obvious, yet it's being stated as a fact.

Let's not get into a contest of listing efficiencies on either side, because that proves nothing. I assume the issue has been studied impartially, right?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

maxy:

I just did a quick and dirty search on the issue, and found a report with documented support for that assertion

www.vtpi.org/sg_save.pdf

AoD

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

You're joking? Correct me if I'm wrong isn't the OPP's main responsibility handing out speeding tickets hence patrolling the highways? I don't believe they have the proper experience to deal with policing issues in a highly urban area such as Tornto.

I was making an extreme point. And if there is a murder in a small town the OPP takes care of it. They are cops just like the Toronto cops handling all crimes.

My cousins lived in a New York City suburb, and had a normal house worth around $300,000 and they where paying over 10,000 a year in taxes.

That's because the suburbs of New York are more expensive than the city itself. There's no way a $300,000 house in Queens or Staten Island pays $10,000 per year.

 

[cdl42]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

"Can anybody prove that it costs more to service the suburbs? It's far from obvious, yet it's being stated as a fact. ... I assume the issue has been studied impartially, right?"

Yup, plenty of times. The Star did a front-page expose on the topic either last year or the year before. It's very logical and obvious if you think about it because you have to deal with a lot of fixed costs. For example, fire halls need to be relatively close together in order to ensure proper response times, meaning that a single fire hall can serve a greater population in a denser location. Or sewer installation... one kilometre of sewer can serve many times more people in a dense setting than in a sparse one.

Some stats I had lying around from a Sierra Club report:
- Between the mid-80s and the mid 90s, Atlanta, Georgia, one of the fastest sprawling cities in America, and Portland, Oregon, a city with tight regulations preventing sprawl, had population growth at approximately the same rate. Atlanta’s property taxes increased 22%, whereas Portland’s dropped 29%.
- Sprawling Prince William County, Virginia has the highest property taxes in the USA, but the costs of providing services to new developments are so high, the county is experiencing a $1,688 shortfall for every new house built.

 

[Mislav]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

And if there is a murder in a small town the OPP takes care of it. They are cops just like the Toronto cops handling all crimes.

Yes but there is a huge difference between investigating crimes in Toronto than in Norwood for example. The Toronto Police have to deal with so many issues that the OPP doesn't. And besides even if the OPP would have the skills and experience needed to fully police Toronto they would still need to hire several thousand new officers to match the TPD's coverage. Hence I don't see how a significant sum of money would be saved.