I've seen the future — as T.O. goes broke

[EnviroTO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Unfortunately I think bankruptcy is almost unavoidable. We seem to have an electorate incapable of accepting any sacrifices either via higher taxes or lower service levels, a lack of city councillors willing to make the hard decisions required to balance finances, and provincial and federal governments that would need to answer to the less sympathetic people across the contry that label us hogtown normally in ways less than a term of endearment. If I thought there was a possibility that I would go bankrupt in the next few years I certainly wouldn't be planting flowers in my planters eventhough I would look forward to better days when I could more reasonably afford to do so.

 

[dan e 1980]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Legally, the city cannot run a deficit, but without the needed funds, it would be essentially bankrupt.

Then the province would step in and take over.

what exactly does this mean? what happens?

 

[EnviroTO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

I imagine it would be similar to what happened with the school board. The province appoints someone to balance the budget and council is marginalized until the financial issues are resolved.

 

[dan e 1980]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

so basicly city council and the mayor would have no power in regards to launching new programs, projects, etc and could not say anything if the province would want to cut or change anything? :eek

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

On the other hand, I think the province would hate to be in a position to stand on the sidelines and have the city go bankrupt, for the very reason that they'd be the ones having to step into the breach after the fact, and having to 1. make those "difficult decisions" and/or 2. having to face the very fiscal imbalance issue it avoided dealing with. It's a no-win situation politically speaking.

AoD

 

[maxy505]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

I'd love to see the province step in. The cuts aren't going to happen from within, due to the stated and near-universal fact that politicians' first goal is remaining in power, not thoughtfully planning (for which, of course, the electorate must ultimately take the blame).

Yeah, it will hurt more the longer we wait, and if it goes to the province it will hurt most of all -- but at least it will get done.

 

[Brighter Hell]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

^what cuts need to be made exactly? community services that have already been cut to the bone? more cuts to the most efficient transit system on the continent? more cuts to infrastructure maintenance?

the city's been making annual cuts for years. this whole problem was imposed by the province and indirectly by the feds. want to know where cuts are needed? try the rural municipalities that encourage scattered, unplanned development. the ones that pave country roads with five houses on them. that stuff costs a fortune when you add it all up and toronto, and to a lesser extent, other urban areas, are paying for it.

 

[borgos]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Mike, I'm not a doctor but it seems you have some memory problems. You raised the issue of selling Metro Hall, Etobicoke, EY and York city halls many months ago. You were told that that would only result in a one-time improvment to the bottom-line. Thereafter, the city would have to rent office space for the employees who work there. Does this sound familiar?

 

[EnviroTO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

what cuts need to be made exactly? community services that have already been cut to the bone? more cuts to the most efficient transit system on the continent? more cuts to infrastructure maintenance

Whatever it takes to balance the budget without selling assets as a solution. You can blame your boss for a low salary all you want but you still need to live with it and within your budget until you convince your boss you deserve that raise. So what if it is the feds and provinces fault? Make sure everyone knows whose fault it is and balance the budget regardless either through cuts or tax increases. Close all the pools but keep ownership of them for the day there is money to open them, shut down Riverdale Farm but hold onto the property, cut back on planting trees and flowers but ensure the planters remain for the day there is money, or raise taxes to pay for these things with a plan to lower the taxes if the situation changes. The tough decisions need to be made because the money isn't there. It doesn't matter if one agrees with the cuts or tax increases or not, what matters is that the budget is properly balanced and that the council proiritizes the cuts as best as they can.

 

[Brighter Hell]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

sure they can close the pools but what's next? stop running buses but retain ownership of them? stop plowing streets but keep the plows? shut down police stations? the city makes annual cuts but no matter what they do it's not enough.

incidentally, if the boss singles out one person to give an unfair pay cut, that person has options other than just taking it.

 

[dan e 1980]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

there are a whole bunch of little things that can be cut but with that said, little things don't amount to enough collectively and the loss of little things can end up costing the city more down the road.

 

[Brighter Hell]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

that's very true. even closing the pools affects the quality of life of thousands. there's no good reason for every little town in ontario to have public pools while expecting toronto to close theirs.

 

[miketoronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

borgos, I don't believe Toronto City Government needs the office space that all the old civic centres take up.

You tell me why my old city councillor had to have two offices? One in City Hall, and another one at Civic Centre?

Pick which location you want an office in, and thats it. No other city has two offices per city councillor. That is a waste of space and money.

 

[Mike in TO]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

that's very true. even closing the pools affects the quality of life of thousands. there's no good reason for every little town in ontario to have public pools while expecting toronto to close theirs.

Well, unfortunately that may be one of the many 'tough' decisions council must make... I would hardly qualify closing pools as being a huge barrier to quality of life. It is, but the city must show some signs of spending constraint when it goes to the province and feds begging for money. Senior levels of government are reluctant to bail Toronto out because they view the city as being reckless with spending. Especially the feds since council is primarily left wing. You may not agree that Toronto is reckless with spending, but that is the perception that senior levels of government have - so the city has to deal with it and stop blaming everyine else.

Also can you please point to all these small towns and rural municipalities with municipal pools? I'm sure there are a couple of examples, but you seem to have the impression that other municipalities have gold plated services, when the fact it that Toronto offers it's citizens an abundance of services not always available in smaller municipalities.

Small municipalities have enough funding problems of their own - especially infrastructure.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Re: I've seen the future � as T.O. goes broke

Toronto hasn't been singled out.

Sure it has. Toronto was downloaded a lot of social services that other towns and cities across the province don't have to deal with. One small example. Why is the Toronto portion of the QEW Toronto's responsibility while the portion from Mississauga to Burlington the Province's responsibility?

How about education. Why does Toronto get less from the province than even 905 gets?
www.toronto.ca/taxes/education_tax.htm

I say we close the Toronto Police Force. That will eliminate the deficit all at once. Let's have the OPP take over. If the province takes care of policing most of the province why not here as well?