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Islam versus Europe

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blixa442

Guest
Cultures collide: Muslim immigrants will be expelled from Europe unless they reverse the growing perception of them as a social threat

Lawrence Solomon
Financial Post

Friday, February 17, 2006


The Muslims refused to assimilate. They were expelled. This was the story in Europe 400 years ago. We are watching the sequel today.

Europeans are rarely welcoming to outsiders, even when the outsiders are blond and blue-eyed and come from the country next door. When the outsiders are un-European, swarthy and Muslim, they are tolerated at best. When some Muslims also insist that Europeans stop acting like Europeans, on pain of death, European tolerance comes to an end.

In the clash of cultures between secular Europeans and extremist Muslims, there can ultimately be no compatibility or compromise, only loss by one side or the other of the absolute values it holds dear. European capitulation on European soil, where they remain the dominant majority, is unlikely: Europeans revel in their liberty to mock religion, to poke fun at sacred cows, to be outrageous, even to offend.

European leaders have reacted to the Muslim upset over the cartoons two ways. Publically and to buy time, they seek to calm the protesters by deploring the abuse of freedom of speech. More significantly, they seek to preserve their societies by legislating Western norms, by tightening or ending immigration from Muslim countries, by enabling the expulsion of radical imans and other Muslim activists, and by raising the spectre of mass deportations.

In France, hard-line Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who in October characterized France's urban rioters as "rabble," will require non-European immigrants to sign a new "Contract of Welcome and Integration" that spells out their obligations. Among other reforms, the French government will be free to expel immigrants after 10 years. Insular Muslim communities -- commonplace today -- are outlawed. For immigrants to stay, they will have to demonstrate respect for French norms, such as equality between men and women. "If a wife is kept hostage at home without learning French, the whole family will be asked to leave [the country]," said Mr. Sarkozy, who proposes to rank countries to determine the desirability of their immigrants.

The Danes have brought in immigration laws that are stricter still, all but ending their liberal refugee program and discouraging even temporary workers. In the wake of the cartoon riots, many in Denmark, including those in government, want to see an outright ban on Muslim immigration and to have radical leaders stripped of citizenship and deported. To preserve home-grown values, Danish Minister for Cultural Affairs Brian Mikkelsen recently called for the creation of a "canon of Danish art, music, literature and film." Last summer, he stated that, "In Denmark we have seen the appearance of a parallel society in which minorities practice their own medieval values and undemocratic views," adding that, "This is the new front in our cultural war."

In Germany, which pioneered the guest-worker program in Europe, a sea change has occurred. "Multicultural societies have only ... functioned peacefully in authoritarian states. To that extent it was a mistake for us to bring guest workers from foreign cultures into the country at the beginning of the 1960s," said former German chancellor Helmut Schmidt. Germany's new Chancellor, Angela Merkel, shares his view: "The notion of multiculturalism has fallen apart," she said prior to her election. "Anyone coming here must respect our constitution and tolerate our Western and Christian roots."

The Netherlands, which has cut immigration in half since 2001, is deporting 26,000 rejected asylum seekers and keeping new arrivals in detention camps. Under proposed legislation, women will be banned from wearing the burka anywhere in public, not just in schools and public buildings as French legislation has it. "I believe we have been far too tolerant for too long, especially being too tolerant of intolerance, and we only got intolerance back," said Member of Dutch Parliament Geert Wilders, who has been forced to live in safe houses because of Islamist death threats. According to a recent Pew Global Attitudes poll, 51% of the Dutch view Muslims unfavourably.

Belgium may be less tolerant still. "Islam is now the number one enemy not only of Europe, but of the entire free world," states Filip Dewinter, leader of Vlaams Belang (The Flemish Interest), now Belgium's most popular political party. Mr. Dewinter has gained popularity by arguing that, "it is an illusion to think that a moderate Islam exists in Europe." He states: "There are already 25 million to 30 million Muslims on Europe's soil, and this becomes a threat. It's a real Trojan horse."

Many Europeans fear their Muslim populations. In Switzerland, 25% consider Muslims a threat to their country. In Italy, half the population believes a "clash of civilizations" between Islam and the West is underway and that Islam is "a religion more fanatical than any other."

The fear debilitates but it also stiffens resolve. The President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, backs the Danish government's refusal to apologize for the cartoons, saying, "It's better to publish too much than not to have freedom." France's Sarkozy prefers "an excess of cartooning to an excess of censorship." Italy's Northern League Party, a member of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's coalition government, printed T-shirts sporting the cartoons in advance of elections in April. The U.K. this week passed legislation broadening the right of free speech, no matter how offensive, barring a specific intent to provoke hatred.

Europe's Muslims now know that they are expected to integrate or to depart. Four centuries ago, after decades of threats of expulsion, forced conversions and other failed attempts to assimilate Muslims, complaints about them -- their use of Arabic, their clothes, their rejection of Western culture -- were similar. "They marry among themselves and do not mix with Old Christians," complained one report of Spain's Moriscos (Muslims who had undergone forced conversions to Christianity). Riots by Muslims at offences perpetrated upon them added to tensions. In the end, still not assimilated, most were expelled.
 
Well let this be a wake up call to the extremist of any religion, that our free countries will not tolerant this crap.

Its about time countries stood up and told these extremist(and not just Muslim extremist) that you either are for human rights and an open diverse society, or you go back to where you came from.

If people don't like free speech and diverse attitudes, then they should not be living in places like Europe.

Good for the governments to finally stick up for once, instead of trying to please extremist.

This will allow the regular Muslims in Europe to live a normal life to, and not worry about the extremist.

I am usually very tolerant, but this recent cartoon thing is just stupid, and shows that something needs to be done about the huge divide in values that the west and muslims are facing.
 
I noticed the thread title, "Islam versus Europe". I noticed the last poster: "miketoronto". I thought to myself: this oughta be good...
 
I thought the same thing and rushed to the thread to see the damage. :) Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on the level of excitment or damage control you are looking for, he used his words wisely this time.
 
The two words "Politically" and "Correct" have finally been shown a third word: "Door".

The concept of being politically correct has meant accepting intolerant radicals to live alongside peace abiding citizens. Why has it been this way for so long? The fear of sounding racist or treating people unequally has put governments on fragile ground when doing their job of defending their country's culture and sovereignty.

I've always been of the idea that countries who have wide open borders - like our own - are importing poverty and future trouble. If you want to join our country and enjoy what it has to offer you must assimilate into our culture. If this statement isn't held up we will have lost all that makes us great and a future Canada won't be so desirable to immigrants after all.

I was at Yuk Yuk's last night and the headlining comedian went on about how Torontonians have nothing in common with one another only to excuse herself when she did think of one thing:
"The only thing Torontonians have in common is broken English".

As I laughed along with all the other people in the club, I couldn't help but think about how serious, and unfortunately how true that statement was.
 
most people come to canada to get away from the problems. those that bring them here are nuts and wasted an air fare.
 
Why the global rage hasn't engulfed Canada

Multiculturalism and media likely muted protests

MICHAEL VALPY

Why haven't Muslims in Canada taken to the streets in large numbers to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed? It's not because everyone in Canada is so nice to each other, say Canadian Muslim leaders and Islamic scholars. It's because Canada's multiculturalism is complex.

They say Muslim immigration into Canada has been different. So has Muslim integration into Canadian society. And so has the political action of Canadian Muslim organizations around the highly sensitive issue of Islamic religious fundamentalism.

The difference is illustrated by events in France in 2004 and Canada in 2005, said Tarek Fatah, a leader of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

In France, few if any representative voices within the French Muslim community were heard in the news media speaking in favour of a law banning conspicuous religious symbols, such as the traditional Muslim head scarf, in public schools.

This was the case even though a significant percentage of French Muslims had no problem accepting the law within the cultural context of French secular society.

The powerful Muslim opposition that was heard, Mr. Fatah said, came from "the mosque structure" but "the mobilization of moderate Muslim voices never happened."

In contrast, in Canada in 2005, the news media pointedly reported that the most vociferous opposition to an Ontario law permitting Islamic religious tribunals to arbitrate family and marital disputes came from Muslim organizations themselves.

In Mr. Fatah's view, the mainstream Muslim community in Canada has recognized the need to take what he calls "ownership of the word Muslim." It has become actively involved in Canadian political life and not marginalized as is the case in many Western countries.

"It's a shift, for Canadian Muslims, that has not happened anywhere else."

Mohamed Elmasry, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said violent demonstrations simply aren't a fit with the Canadian Muslim community -- which, because of Canada's immigration requirements, he said, is the most highly educated Muslim community in the world.

"They would find legal and peaceful means of protest far more productive," said the imam and professor at the University of Waterloo. "With demonstrations, you cannot have full control over who does what."

His organization, the largest Muslim umbrella group in Canada, has actively discouraged demonstrations over the cartoons and has spoken publicly against the violent protests -- as has the Muslim Canadian Congress.

Earle Waugh, a University of Alberta Islamic scholar, said most Muslim immigrants to Canada do not feel sidelined, a factor significantly fuelling the protests in European countries.

"There is no sympathy within the Canadian Muslim community for a radical approach," he said. "No sympathy for the fundamentalists."

Canada has had no legacy of Muslim colonies like that of the British and French, and no history of migrant Muslim guest workers like that of Germany.
 
Metro:

The concept of being politically correct has meant accepting intolerant radicals to live alongside peace abiding citizens.

Since when political correctness means accepting intolerant radicals?

The fear of sounding racist or treating people unequally has put governments on fragile ground when doing their job of defending their country's culture and sovereignty.

I would worry about NAFTA more in that regards.

I've always been of the idea that countries who have wide open borders - like our own - are importing poverty and future trouble.

Importing poverty? History has shown that immigrants were able to move up the ladder so to say within a generation or two of coming to Canada.

If you want to join our country and enjoy what it has to offer you must assimilate into our culture. If this statement isn't held up we will have lost all that makes us great and a future Canada won't be so desirable to immigrants after all.

What does assimilating into "our" (like, whose?) culture means, exactly? What is "Canadian culture"? If you mean the broadest terms - peace, order and good government, sure, I am all for it. But beyond that?

"The only thing Torontonians have in common is broken English".

A foolish statement for a cheap laugh.

AoD
 
From Down Under:

Prime Minister John Howard’s suggestions that some Muslims are extremists who cannot embrace the country’s ways are offensive and ignorant, the Islamic Council of NSW says.

Mr Howard today said he stood by his comments outlined in a book to mark his 10 years in power, claiming sections of Australia’s Muslim population are antagonistic to Australian culture.

He said a commitment to jihad and extreme attitudes towards women were two problems unique to Muslims that previous intakes of migrants from Europe did not have, and that Australia wanted people to assimilate and adopt Australian ways. Mr Howard said today it was his “right and duty†to express his thoughts.

“I stand by those comments that there is a small section of the Islamic population in Australia that, because of its remarks about jihad, remarks which indicate an extremist view, that is a problem,†Mr Howard told reporters in Sydney.

“It is not a problem that we have ever faced with other immigrant communities who become easily absorbed by Australia’s mainstream.â€

Australians wanted people to assimilate, Mr Howard said.

“We want people when they come to Australia to adopt Australians ways. We don’t ask them to forget the countries of their birth, we respect all religious points of views and people are entitled to practise them but there are certainly things that are not part of the Australian mainstream.â€

The Prime Minister also expressed concern about Muslim attitudes to women.

“There is within some sections of the Islamic community an attitude towards women which is out of line with mainstream Australian society,†he said. “It needs to be dealt with by the broader community, including Islamic Australia. There is really not much point in pretening it doesn’t exist.â€
 
We have to remember that Muslims in North America are more often relatively wealthy, white-collar, professional and highly educated. Muslims in Europe are poorer, blue-collar, working class and not as learned. This by itself goes a long way in explaining the difference in reaction by Muslims on this side of the Atlantic.

But these are not the only differences. As we have seen with the Cartoon issue, secular European natives are telling Muslim immigrants that if you want to be European, you have to give up what is most sacred to you. Canadian Muslims have never been subjected to such mean-spirited demands, and have benefited from Canada's policy of multiculturalism. Even in the U.S., the demand for Muslims to assimilate has not been as harsh as in Europe.
 
We should fear Holland’s silence

We should fear Holland’s silence

Islamists are stifling debate in what was Europe’s freest country, says Douglas Murray


‘Would you write the name you’d like to use here, and your real name there?†asked the girl at reception. I had just been driven to a hotel in the Hague. An hour earlier I’d been greeted at Amsterdam airport by a man holding a sign with a pre-agreed cipher. I hadn’t known where I would be staying, or where I would be speaking. The secrecy was necessary: I had come to Holland to talk about Islam.
Last weekend, four years after his murder, Pim Fortuyn’s political party, Lijst Pim Fortuyn, held a conference in his memory on Islam and Europe. The organisers had assembled nearly all the writers most critical of Islam’s current manifestation in the West. The American scholars Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer were present, as were the Egyptian-Jewish exile and scholar of dhimmitude, Bat Ye’or, and the great Muslim apostate Ibn Warraq.



Both Ye’or and Warraq write and speak under pseudonyms. Standing at the hotel desk I confessed to the girl that I didn’t have any other name, couldn’t think of a good one fast. I was given my key and made aware that the other person in the lobby, a tall figure in a dark suit, was my security detail. I was taken up to my room where I changed, unpacked and headed back out — the security guard now positioned outside my bedroom door.

I had been invited to deliver the closing speech to the memorial conference on what would have been Fortuyn’s 58th birthday. I said I would talk on the effects of Europe’s increasingly Islamicised population and advocate a tougher European counterterror strategy. There was no overriding political agenda to the occasion, simply a desire for frank discussion.

The event was scholarly, incisive and wide-ranging. There were no ranters or rabble-rousers, just an invited audience of academics, writers, politicians and sombre party members. As yet another example of Islam’s violent confrontation with the West (this time caused by cartoons) swept across the globe, we tried to discuss Islam as openly as we could. The Dutch security service in the Hague was among those who considered the threat to us for doing this as particularly high. The security status of the event was put at just one level below “national emergencyâ€.

This may seem fantastic to people in Britain. But the story of Holland — which I have been charting for some years — should be noted by her allies. Where Holland has gone, Britain and the rest of Europe are following. The silencing happens bit by bit. A student paper in Britain that ran the Danish cartoons got pulped. A London magazine withdrew the cartoons from its website after the British police informed the editor they could not protect him, his staff, or his offices from attack. This happened only days before the police provided 500 officers to protect a “peaceful†Muslim protest in Trafalgar Square.

It seems the British police — who regularly provide protection for mosques (as they did after the 7/7 bombs) — were unable to send even one policeman to protect an organ of free speech. At the notorious London protests, Islamists were allowed to incite murder and bloodshed on the streets, but a passer-by objecting to these displays was threatened with detention for making trouble.

Holland — with its disproportionately high Muslim population — is the canary in the mine. Its once open society is closing, and Europe is closing slowly behind it. It looks, from Holland, like the twilight of liberalism — not the “liberalism†that is actually libertarianism, but the liberalism that is freedom. Not least freedom of expression.

All across Europe, debate on Islam is being stopped. Italy’s greatest living writer, Oriana Fallaci, soon comes up for trial in her home country, and in Britain the government seems intent on pushing through laws that would make truths about Islam and the conduct of its followers impossible to voice.

Those of us who write and talk on Islam thus get caught between those on our own side who are increasingly keen to prosecute and increasing numbers of militants threatening murder. In this situation, not only is free speech being shut down, but our nation’s security is being compromised.

Since the assassinations of Fortuyn and, in 2004, the film maker Theo van Gogh, numerous public figures in Holland have received death threats and routine intimidation. The heroic Somali-born Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her equally outspoken colleague Geert Wilders live under constant police protection, often forced to sleep on army bases. Even university professors are under protection.

Europe is shuffling into darkness. It is proving incapable of standing up to its enemies, and in an effort to accommodate the peripheral rights of a minority is failing to protect the most basic rights of its own people.

The governments of Europe have been tricked into believing that criticism of a belief is the same thing as criticism of a race. And so it is becoming increasingly difficult and dangerous to criticise a growing and powerful ideology within our midst. It may soon, in addition, be made illegal.

I had planned — the morning after my speech — to see Geert Wilders, but instead spent the time catching up with his staff. Their leader had been called in by the police to discuss more than 40 new death threats he had received over the previous days.

As I left the Netherlands I once again felt terrible sorrow for a country that is slowly being lost. A society which should be carefree and inspiring has become dark and worried. The jihad in Europe is winning. And Holland, and our continent, takes one step further into a dark and menacing future.
 
Re: We should fear Holland’s silence

^For those that aren't familiar with Dutch politics, Pim Fortuyn was a Dutch political leader that was assasinated in 2002 by Volkert van der Graaf, a white collar native Dutch left-wing environmentalist. Fortuyn had often said that there wasn't any room for more immigrants in the Netherlands. The ultimate irony is that it was decided that there wasn't enough room in the Netherlands for Pim's dead body. Pim is buried, not in the Netherlands, but near his vacation house in Italy.
 

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